Saturday, 11.10.2008 - Welcome to web.com.na! Online: 4 Members, 20 Guests You are not logged in! Home | Forums   Forum Your last visit was: Saturday, 11.10.2008, 08:45 [ Search Forum ] Forum Home : Namibia : Political Discussions Displaying all 9 posts: Post Views: 715 Zimbabwe and SADC nambili Number Posts: 59 Last Post: 01.07.2008, 00:21 [ View User's Posts ] Thursday, 17. April 2008 at 16:34 An objective SADC community should ensure that the people Zimbabwe have the right to be governed by a constitutional elected government. The impasse following the elections in Zimbabwe means that the results, if and when released, can no longer be seen to be credible. It was premature for SADC observers to declare the elections free and fair before the results were announced, as the dissenting South African Democratic Alliance observer team has correctly pointed out. The timeous release of results is one of the prerequisites of a free and fair election, the DA said. President Pohamba reminds us that “The Electoral Commission of Zimbabwe is an independent body and no one can interfere, not MDC or Zimbabwe African National Union-Patriotic Front (Zanu-PF).” By law that is true but the situation on the ground is far from the law and this constitutes a crisis -a constitutional vacuum which is being filled by the military. OK, maybe there is no crisis as SADC wants us to believe, but the situation in Zimbabwe is uncertain, and difficult warranting action to be taken to avoid complete disaster or breakdown. Unfortunately, that is the definition of a crisis! What action does SADC need to take on Zimbabwe? 1. Pressure for the immediate release of results, failing which, Mugabe's government should be recognised as the unconstitutional government that it is. 2. In the event of a run-off election, SADC should demand the withdrawal of security forces from the streets. SADC should dispatch enough observers and deploy peace-keeping forces to ensure a free and fair election. If all else fails, A SADC intervention force should forcibly overthrow the government of Zimbabwe and SADC suprvised free and fair elections carried out to elect a legitimate government. International help where needed and offered should also be accepted. Military intervention in Zimbabwe will be fairly easy as the country is already crumbling and many of the foot soldiers are not prepared to die for Mugabe and would rather surrender or desert. However, military intervention in Zimbabwe is highly unlikely due to the camaraderie among our leaders. That camaraderie is more important that the will and welfare of the people of Zimbabwe. Re: Zimbabwe and SADC Goddy Number Posts: 95 Last Post: 08.08.2008, 00:14 [ View User's Posts ] Thursday, 17. April 2008 at 22:31 What is happening in Zimbabwe, is an indication that political leaders doesn't care about their people but rather how to remain on power even by force. Things in Zimbabwe are being disturbed by Britain. No one wanted to see Britain having much of influence in that country but it seems that if MDC happen to take over from ZANU-PF, Britain will continue to be master-mind of MDC. What is happening in Zimbabwe now, clearly proofing conflict of interest. On the other hand, having Mugabe well protected by some SADC leaders and China, things will not change to good soon. In my view, i prefer Britain to keep away from Zimbabwe problem. Re: Zimbabwe and SADC Boerseun Number Posts: 211 Last Post: 08.10.2008, 21:28 [ View User's Posts ] Saturday, 19. April 2008 at 11:57 Nambili I fully agree with you. Rob Mugabe and the way he "manipulates" SADC leaders is an absolute disgrace. He NEVER was going to hand over the country to the opposition in case of an election victory by the MDC. The Chinese ship loaded with Rocket Propelled Grenades, Ammonition, Mortar Rounds etc. is currently laying outside the Durban harbour. The Dock Workers, via the COSATU labour unions, refuses to offload the ship, and transport workers indicated they will refuse to transport the weapons. THE FOLLOWING SHOULD BE NOTED BY EVERYBODY TO STUPID TO PUT 2 AND 2 TOGETHER: The ship arrived almost 3 weeks AFTER the elections, and that animal Mugabe has been DELAYING THE RESULTS FOR 3 WEEKS NOW. He KNEW he would have to wait a month or so after the elections before he could lay his hands on the weapons intended for the opression of his political opponents and their supporters. Hence the delay in making the results of the Presidential Election public. ( He LOST!!) If he gets those weapons ( via Mozambique, for example ) the people of Zim can kiss any chance of getting rid of that dog goodbye. The people of the SADC region should put real pressure on our governments to DENOUNCE Rob the Mobster, we can start by removing the bastards name disgracing streets in our towns!! Goddy, To lay blame on the UK for the problems in Zim is extremely shallow. The UK is not responsible for the diminishing intellectual faculties of Mugabe. ( Syphillis is propably a better candidate!!) What do you mean by "Brittain continue to master mind the MDC" ???? Just because the MDC is a moderate orginisation with Pro Western sentiments, does not mean the are "master minded" by any Westen Nation. EESH! Wake up, and smell the coffee! Please also note, during the Namibian Liberation Struggle, swapo also courted for favour and political support from the UK, Scandinavian countries etc. Does that mean we are a "puppet state" of any of those countries ???? Convenient memory loss, Goddy?? In my view Britain should intervene, even with military force if needed, because the SADC leadership / countries are clearly to PATHETIC and BIASED in their racist idiology to intervene in Zim or with Mugabe. They hold him in high esteem because he forcefully, illegally, and racistly removed a few white people from their farms. Back in the 1970's a lot of Namibian and South African people went to Zim as mercinaries. IF mugabe holds on to power, and everybody is to spineless to remove him, we could well see a civil war, with the forces opposing Mugabe getting funding from the UK or large businesses with vested interests. It is likely we can once again see Namibian and South African mercinaries fighting in Zim. All because of the misguided belief of some people that Brittain is somehow to blame for bad governance in Southern Africa. His funeral will indeed be a reson to celebrate, and dance in the streets! Re: Zimbabwe and SADC Goddy Number Posts: 95 Last Post: 08.08.2008, 00:14 [ View User's Posts ] Saturday, 19. April 2008 at 22:59 First of all, i don't have right to call Hon. Robert Gabriel Mugabe as a "dog". The way you just put it, it caused me to recall our own president His Exc. Pohamba's words reminding namibian kids like you(Boerseun) to respect elders. mnr Boersen! Whether you like it or not, Britain is the one worsening situation in that country. Few days ago, everyone witnessed scenario where-by Brown and Mbeki clashed at UN security meeting. That was an evidence to everyone to realise how serious Britain is on Zimbabwe change. Britain sent several African leaders to go meet Mugabe. I know those leaders which Britain sent there. mnr Boersen, tell us now.....,Who initiated and imposed sanction on Zimbabwe and for what reason was all that happened? In you view mnr Boersen, what made life in Zimbabwe to be so difficult? You! young boy be reminded that SADC leaders understood the situation very well and what is happening in Zimbabwe is a test to all Britain colonies including Namibia. What is happening in Zimbabwe is a kind of disease and if our leaders can't stand in one front to fight it there, that disease will spread to all southern countries where Britain got an interest. "The problem is not about Mugabe but rather conflict of interest" - Dr. K. Kaunda of Zambia (The only SADC leader mediated between Zimbabwe and Britain some years ago. for more read Zimbabwe history). Let those doesn't know how to write, read and analyse blame Mbeki for being misinterpreted by medias. SADC need to speak with one voice and they are doing that. Re: Zimbabwe and SADC tell it like that Number Posts: 119 Last Post: 15.06.2008, 10:10 [ View User's Posts ] Sunday, 20. April 2008 at 20:11 may i air my opinion on this topic too. First i want to hint on why maybe Britain is so involve in Zim. there must be many reason for Britain to be involve in ZIim problems. when we African have problems we run and seek asylum in Europe or America thats what make this people get involve in our lives just imagine what statements did those who seeked asylum in Britain for them to qualify as refugees somehow have turnish Mugabe and this will somehow will qualify him to be in the HAGE ONEDAY even if he dies those in his leadership will swim especialy the police and army general and this we have seen to many happening like Milosovic Charles tailor and many more dictors to come this is the thruth and no matter how you can talk or screem if this international crimainal court is after you they will get you and you will be in t he dock and the reality is we won,t see any brave sadc leader who will symapthised with mugabe accompanying him to the hage cause the Zim people have put their safering on the table and as said no one can enterfere with the zimbabwean peoples voice and suffering today we are leaving in a different world where everybody have to be acountable to your wrong deeds so leaders should learn on how to govern their nation not abuse your nation and blame it on some one thats wrong remeber we are mebers of UN bodies we sign papers on many things but at the same time we forget and start ill treating our people when we are in power for a long time just like Mugabe. Britain 1.let it be known to all of us that currently Britain is hosting many zimbwabean refugees and lets remember that millions of Zimbwabeans are seeking Asylum in Britain we are talking of millions of refugees and lets look at the Economic impact on that country when someone seeks asylum it is the goverment responsibilty to cater for those refugees untill they find jobs in the said country lets put it like this millions economic refugees that must be too much for a country to handle maybe thiswhy Britain is too much and want to solve this problem so that zimbabweans can be able to go home and live their normal life. South-Africa 2. I really don,t have respect for Thabo Mbeki why because he is not real and he is not someone who can solve problems , Sadc can stand as one but they should also learn to tell people like Mugabe enough is enough look blacks we don,t care about ourselves look at South Africa how they are treating those Zimbabweans who are currently in South Africa the problem is we treat our own like dogs and at the same time Thabo is saying there is no criscis in Zimbabwe than if ther is no crisis in ZIM wy does South Africa has the highst number of zims as refugees jet the South African Goverment can,t act why ? because the goverment of South africa does not cater for them if south Africa was catering for this refugees today you could hear him talking the same voice with Britains Brown because the financial constrains is hitting Britain while the South African goverment do nothing to them those Zimbabwean in South Africa are suvirving by themselves survival fo the fitest or if UN is stepping up than South Africa don,t care because the problem is not on their shoulder aren,t like Britain today their goverment is catering for those refugees who seeked asylum in Britain especially Zimbabweans and this same statements of can make Britain act which oneday might end mugabe in the Hage this are Zimbabweans not Sadc leaders but the zimbabwean people who also want a life like everybody in Sadc. Namibia 3. why should we care with Zims problems we are seeing it normal because ther is no high numbe rs of zimbnabweans seeking Asylum in Namibia apart from selling goods in the streets or being employed by our goverment so why not playing a distancing game because it does not affect us at all everything is fine who cares with those Zimbabweans who are suffering today so today sadc can go to meetingS and try to act like therE is no porblem in Zim i have this words Sadc leaders are Afraid of mugabe no one can stand in his face and tell him the truth we africans should be strong enough to start condeming those who have evill menatlity like mugabe today the situation in Zimbabwe is mugabe own made because he doesn,t wnat to vacate power he want to die as zimbabwean president thats the reality he has made it worse for himself now ther is no point of return so him want to sink with the zibnabwean nation and he knows that he is killing time because diffinetly as soon as he steps down he is going to land in the huge so the only way now is to play the delay game. 4. Britain and Zimbabwe have problems but Britain is not telling mugabe to beat up those who votes for MDC that is groos violation of Human Rights currently Mugabe have gone far by abusing the Zimbabwean people which no one can not see including the international comitees which is evident and fit enough to qualify him Mugabe as a dictator or abuser and he is fit to stand trial in Hage and if UN deceides i don,t see anyone in the sadc who is fit to stand and rescue mugabe what if they can not rescue the zimbabwean can they rescue an individual dictator like mugabe every leader in the sadc knows deep down in t heir heart thar what mugabe is doing right now is he is fooling everybody me and evrybody can see it is about time we need to tell the truth the only mistake in Zimbabwe is fear in the zimbabwean nationals but i tell you if it was people who don,t care i telll you today we could talk of something else like Burundi or Kenya. or even liberia or Kongo or if the people could stand together no matter how you kill i tell you mugabe could seek asylum sopmewhere which i believe Britain have clean hands, 5. Zambia i do respect mwanawasa at least he is one who mentioned few things about zim but after realizing that the zims fall down is a boost to zambia economi the next statement is we are not hear to trial mugabe so it is goood i think mugabe also knows that he is dealing with cowards he tellls them he is not attending you see how disrepectfull mugabe is he put you down and you want to lick his feets he is manupulative of course and what is zanbia to loose nothing at least their economi is getter better well done zambia that you ahve realise that maybe the best way is to distance yourself from the sinking ship and bopost your economi while mugabe on his alst round ther is no way he is going to clincg to power for so long his days are number including old age so do your best zambia and boost your economic for the sake of sadc good you have realise because this game is good paly fake and be smart at the same time because oneday zimbabwen will put it in their books that who betrayed them when they wher suffering and it is history which no one can erase how can any leader betray a nation while we see the situation is deteriorating in zim,. and one say there is no crisic in zim. 6. i will base my argument on this and lets discuss this and than why is Britain not coming to zimbabwe like the way they did in Irag after all Britain have the best weapon with their ally America why are they not acting if Britain had conflict of interest in zimbabwe like Irag why? do you thing this super powers are afraid of any one if the are after zimbabwe what is stoping them coming are they realy interested and what is in zimbabwe that can make Britain love ZIM. lets disscuss this because i realy don,t know what richness zimbabwe have apart from those hard working farmers who turned zimbabwe into a bread basket of Africa i would like more apart from that cause you can have land but if you don,t know what to do that land is nothing don,t tell me that Britain put sactions on land too still mugabe could plough and celll to his Sadc allies or how why did he fail to do that why did mugabe not continue after grabing land and still he could sign up many agrement with his allies like South Africa, Namibia and others did they realy help their ally when they saw things sawering in Zim are they realy friends if anything is normal like Thabo is saying what are their plans to help Zim from its high inflation so are this real leaders or just don,t know what to do lest air our opinions. or are they afraid of mugabe who is brave who can look in mugabe eyes and tell him he is wrong. who is he in sadc? lets discuss this topic please. Love and Peace [Post edited by: tell it like that on 20/4/08 8:15 PM] [Post edited by: tell it like that on 20/4/08 8:18 PM] Re: Zimbabwe and SADC vakwetu Number Posts: 19 Last Post: 06.08.2008, 11:50 [ View User's Posts ] Sunday, 20. April 2008 at 21:10 Hello tell it i have come to respect your writing because your writtings make 100% sense to me. eventhough me and you are from different political parties i think i can agree with you on many issuess. right i will answer where i can and leave some for others to finish up. pertaining the crisis in zimbabwe one thing i know for sure is let the zimbabwean people raise up and start doing something about their plights otherwise no one realy care because they don,t feel any pinch so let the ones who feel it deal with it. so my other question is so if many millions in zimbabwe are abroad than who is voting in that country i think it is about time they come home and do something about the situation in their country. so you mean to tell me this millions are youth or old poeple i can,t believe this i think it is a record in Afica millions abroad as refugees and more are in Europe , America , so than leave sadc alone maybe those countires should solve their problem by making them citizens because they won,t come back their are no longer zimbabweans. and zimbabwean should change the dual citizenship story maybe this people will be serious about where they come from and still if morgan will do something you might find the same people who are abroad running back home for greener pastures again such oppotunist. come home and vote because no one will do it for them people will have many meetings but nothing will come up because threre is no presure from those nationals only few. I have watch BBC and AMERICAN CNN if those countries have those refugees i don,t see them demostrating what are they afraid of even if they are abroad but they don,t condon what is happening in their country i will put it to this relaxtant people that enough is enough they must raise up and no one will resque them if they can,t do it themselves, i remmeber our spirit during those days indimidation and beating by boers was there but did we sacum to it we kept preusre, untill we got what we wanted our persistent made people come to our rescue including the south Africans it was their persistance that made everything possible you persist and people will come to your resque. i realy don,t know weateher this people know how to deal with mugabe this is the second time the election is going in that counrty how can you accept going to election while knowing it is not going to be free and fair if it is not observed by UN difinetly it is not free and fair boycot the election and give your case to UN if we namibians where fools we could continue suffer the opress system because it was the same tactics they wanted to pull on us but we use to boycott the fake election we demandend the UN one let the UN body table a resolution in the zimbabwean issues but this must come from them as a nation willing to die and sacrifacise not just staying in Britain and America so who is going to solve your problem home they are even lucky that many are outside but what do we see nothing from those outside even a petition to UN they are many Zimbabweans in America they fail even to hand a petition i fell to understand the zimbabwean people. i don,t think people want to help people who don,t help themselves simple as that. Sadc have their countries and those countrie have problem to deal with so Zimbabweans must not expect miracles from Sadc might step in if them show seriousness because right now even if the inflation is high at least each household have a family abroad who are sending in money thiswhy you don,t see the situation like Ethopia in that country because they don,t care with inflation to them nothing have change as long as they get money from their children and live goes on and no time to boycott other than coming to namibia ro zambia ,. south africa, botswana , selling doillies and curtains plus manything i thiong if this people where coming as refugees to the said countries than we could speed up their problems or how if them don,t care than who will care. onething for sure if the Zimbabwean people don,t raise up no one will. and i don,t think any leader want to get envolve just like you know that zim babwe is a sovereign country so sadc knows their limits too. the only people who have the full rights to change are the zimbabwean national. and it is about time they realise this or the country will sink with mugabe. i will balme it on Zim people not sadc they should just stand together and demand change. of course they will get change if they want or wait untill our old man dies or get older. thank you [Post edited by: vakwetu on 20/4/08 9:15 PM] [Post edited by: vakwetu on 20/4/08 9:19 PM] [Post edited by: vakwetu on 20/4/08 9:34 PM] Re: Zimbabwe and SADC nambili Number Posts: 59 Last Post: 01.07.2008, 00:21 [ View User's Posts ] Monday, 21. April 2008 at 09:40 Goddy, Discussions about what Britain and other western countries did or didn't do to worsen the situation in Zimbabwe might be relevant but they are not important at this stage. The issue at hand is the wishes and aspirations of the Zimbabwean people. The people of Zimbabwe have been suffering for long and they might have turned to "western stooges" to solve their problems. This is because no help has been forthcoming from anywhere else, except perhaps humanitarian aid from the west. Not everyone in Zimbabwe is prepared to sacrifice their livelihood to fight colonialism while Mugabe is printing money for the first lady to go shopping in France and to buy fuel-guzzling Hummers for his generals. We must respect their wishes (election results) -even if their wishes coincide with the wishes of western powers. If we are prepared to help, we must stand up and defend human rights and democracy in Zimbabwe. If we are not, we must shut up and then maybe someone else will do something. Where was the rest of Africa in Rwanda? The Belgians sent in troops but they came only to rescue the Europeans, where were the African troops? In Kenya, everything happened so fast that there was no time for intervention. Zimbabwe...the world is watching but we will come up with excuses later or just continue blaming the west. Re: Zimbabwe and SADC Goddy Number Posts: 95 Last Post: 08.08.2008, 00:14 [ View User's Posts ] Monday, 21. April 2008 at 15:19 I don't know what to say about Zimbabwe any more. I have said enough only that Hon. Mugabe can't read or listen to our contribution. Since election passed, Zimbabwe was and still a top topic both in local(African) and international medias. Re: Zimbabwe and SADC nambili Number Posts: 59 Last Post: 01.07.2008, 00:21 [ View User's Posts ] Tuesday, 01. July 2008 at 00:21 I am posting under this topic because it is a continuation of the first post on Thursday, 17. April 2008 just after the first round of elections. The role of SADC in Zimbabwe has been a "tragic failure" to paraphrase Nelson Mandela. It is interesting to note that Madiba did not mention Mugabe by name but simply spoke of "the tragic failure of leadership" in Zimbabwe. I understand that to mean the failure of SADC as a whole, and not specifically Mugabe, who can hardly be expected to provide leadership since he is part of the problem. It is unreasonable to expect a free and fair run-off election without a neutral peace keeping force in Zimbabwe and hardly surprising that the election observers have concluded as follows: SADC: The elections did not represent the will of the people of Zimbabwe. The pre-election phase was characterised by politically-motivated violence, intimidation and displacements. Pan-African Parliament: The atmosphere prevailing in the country did not give rise to the conduct of free, fair and credible elections. Conditions should be put in place for the holding of free, fair and credible elections as soon as possible. and the UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon said: the outcome did not reflect the true and genuine will of the Zimbabwean people or produce a legitimate result. All these statements lead to the same conclusion: The elections in Zimbabwe were not free and fair and did not produce "a legitimate result". It would be an affront to democracy if Robert Mugabe is duly recognised by SADC as President of Zimbabwe while the SADC Observer team concluded that the election "did not represent the will of the Zimbabwean people" It is a noble idea to hold a conference [in Windhoek nogal] and come up with the SADC Electoral Code and also a good idea to send election observers to Zimbabwe. But it is a waste of money if SADC still ratify elections and recognise a leader who won through elections that didn't satisfy any of the TEN conditions set out in the SADC Electoral Code. African countries that have a position on Zimbabwe -whatever position that is -should be commended for their principled leadership. Countries that don't have a position or do not declare their position should take the blame for the "tragic failure of leadership" Post Views: 715 Displaying all 9 posts: © 2008 web.com.na About | Press | Contact & Support | Terms & Conditions| Privacy | Imprint Designed for Namibia