Saturday, 11.10.2008 - Welcome to web.com.na! Online: 7 Members, 21 Guests You are not logged in! Home | Forums   Forum Your last visit was: Saturday, 11.10.2008, 08:59 [ Search Forum ] Forum Home : Namibia : Political Discussions Displaying all 18 posts: Post Views: 866 What should SADC do with Botswana? BIGDAD Number Posts: 5 Last Post: 10.07.2008, 21:12 [ View User's Posts ] Wednesday, 09. July 2008 at 17:57 What makes Botswana different from other SADC members? Seems like they have become a barking dog of the west. We have US spy planes in sky of Botswana. Botswana is too critical of Mugabe. And Botswana voluntarily offered Tsivangirai asylum, although Tsivangirai crealy stated that he wasn't looking for asylum. What should be done? Re: What should SADC do with Botswana? Tiara Number Posts: 319 Last Post: 09.10.2008, 23:14 [ View User's Posts ] Wednesday, 09. July 2008 at 23:13 Botswana puts a premiun on economic and political intergration in Southern Africa and with it's proven record of good economic governance,it's ranked as Africa's least corrupt country.Sure,Botswana is too critical of Mugabe because what Mugabe is doing to his own people is wrong and unacceptable in the eyes of any human being.(although some are still blind folded and think it's ok what Mugabe is doing) The western countries(especially the USA)consider Botswana an advocate of and a model for stability in Africa.The USA has very strong political ties with Botswana and has been a major partner in Botswana's development since it's independence. Well,I think,those are just the few things that make Botswana different from other SADC members and what the rest of SADC should do is take an example from it. Re: What should SADC do with Botswana? mind yo stuffs Number Posts: 156 Last Post: 11.10.2008, 00:48 [ View User's Posts ] Thursday, 10. July 2008 at 01:10 Zimbabwe violence and what racists and terrorists labeled as sham election should be an African problem, and it should be solved within the African border fucck Europe and the wolrd as a whole read this newspaper extract "They want to undermine the African Union (AU) and President (Thabo) Mbeki's (mediation) efforts because they are racist, because they think only white people think better," he said. "It's an insult to African leaders [Post edited by: mind yo business on 10/7/08 1:12 AM] Re: What should SADC do with Botswana? Sacramento Number Posts: 252 Last Post: 11.10.2008, 08:26 [ View User's Posts ] Thursday, 10. July 2008 at 02:37 I think Botswana can be used as a model for many African states, I have been to Botswana once and I was very impressed with the system of governance there, the people are well taken care of, education is free, and I mean free and not Namibian free, ordinary people can afford basic commodity without borrowing from a cash loan, tax payers don’t have to pay TV License, the government produce a daily Newspaper which is distributed for free (talking about right to information), the list is endless I seriously don’t care if their success is as a result of their relationship with the west, but I wont mind living in a country where I don’t have to pay so much for primary education of my children, health care and information or where there are no burgers and people hunger or poverty and where national resources are in the hands of the ordinary people, give me that and I will call it freedom. You can argue the whole day but I hope you understand that the majority of us can not sent our children to school, never mind the University, the majority of the people in SADC have no food and other basic needs, the majority of the people leave well under 1 USD a day and work up to 12hours a day. We have to accept the reality, we can hate the west, but the truth is we depend on them for so many things. Most of you came on this forum writing fancy English you learned in the western University, most of you who are still at school could only dream of a scholarship to Europe and the US, Most of our governments survive simply because of donor aids from the west, talking about ARVs, Education and even Human Resources. Now you tell me what is wrong with Botswana. Re: What should SADC do with Botswana? Boerseun Number Posts: 211 Last Post: 08.10.2008, 21:28 [ View User's Posts ] Thursday, 10. July 2008 at 14:26 I worked in Bots about 9 years ago. They are an accountable, stable country. Leadership is capable and educated. Senior civil servants are appointed on the basis of merit. Stable economy. Good environmental policies. The list goes on. We will play catchup for a long time to reach their level of development. Have you noticed countries with govts/populations CRITICAL of the west are more "backwards" than "pro western" nations in the developing world?? Re: What should SADC do with Botswana? BIGDAD Number Posts: 5 Last Post: 10.07.2008, 21:12 [ View User's Posts ] Thursday, 10. July 2008 at 15:54 Sacramento: The west is not a solution to African problems. An outsider who is interfering in domestic affairs is not a good helper. Talking of depending on them, you are totally not right. They have what we need, we have what they need. So it supposed to be an exchange or trade [willingly]. But see how things are going today. Corruption has no colour neither a clear definition, so don't be suprised by Botswana ranked low on corruption than Namibia. First think of who made that list. I watch BBC everyday and i am tired of their propaganda. Seriously, talking of the west, think twice. All they have are strong foreign policies to succesfully remote control developing countries. ARVs are worsening things. They are giving enogh time to sick people to spread the disease and you think we are benefiting. Because of them you will end up living in a country 90% inhabitated by HIV postive people. For many HIV postive people, living longer is direct propotional to the number of people they are infecting. The solution to African problems is not good ties with the west but SELF GOVERNANCE and INDEPENDENCE (when making domestic decisions). Who do you think affect the way westerners run their countries? Why the same can't apply with us. Sometimes, the way to the solution is through thick jungles and we should face them. Westners already did, what you see today is just a good harvest! Re: What should SADC do with Botswana? mandume Number Posts: 224 Last Post: 13.08.2008, 09:22 [ View User's Posts ] Thursday, 10. July 2008 at 16:44 BigDAD, wrote: “ARVs are worsening things. They are giving enogh time to sick people to spread the disease and you think we are benefiting. Because of them you will end up living in a country 90% inhabitated by HIV postive people. For many HIV postive people, living longer is direct propotional to the number of people they are infecting.” Guys, lets get serious in our debates instead of just going astray to say whatever comes in our minds,….BIGDAD real sounded SMALLDAD to make such remarks. My Brother BIGDAD? AIDS is real and it KILLS….and all human beings deserves a chance to live as long as god can permits. Did you ever imagined how you would respond if were told you were HIV positive? Or will you just go straight and go HANG? Ok. Maybe you will but, there are whole lots of ppl with greater responsibilities and still needed to society even if living “HIV positive lives”. So these ppl’s lives deserves Pro-longing………………………. Coming back on-course. For as long as many African Leaders including Namibian, thinks Africa could do it on its own? For as long as we suffer more and more. Of course we can’t deny the fact that we need some sense of direction from the developed world or Nations, especially with all these ever changing Technologies, Economies, Environments and even Societies. World today is more complex than ever before and it is ever becoming smaller and smaller. Old style of Leadership will never work for Africa and not any were in the world. North- Korea tried but they failed and are giving in to globalization. African, problems will only be solved once African Leaders take time to study and understand global settings and how they can maneuver these to benefit their own ppl with the Natural resources they already have, and surprisingly BOTWANA did just that and the plan worked for them well “may be not so very well”. South Africa tried and still are……………………..Namibian? As long as African Leaders lives in denial to the fact that they need developed Nations? Afrcan ppl will forever suffer and suffer…….. Africans we don’t like to lean from the best but, we sit around criticize and criticize with no plan and no solution. We wait until forever comes…………………….. Fallas “Africans” , we need to re-engineer our mind sets and change our attitudes towards ourselves and those that lives among us who are not one of us. We have to get to the realities and accept truth because without it we will never be who we like to be. I rest my case…………………………………..Peace and LOVE yaNdemufayo, Re: What should SADC do with Botswana? BIGDAD Number Posts: 5 Last Post: 10.07.2008, 21:12 [ View User's Posts ] Thursday, 10. July 2008 at 21:12 Mandume. I absolutely doubt if the original yaNdemufayo will agree with most of the idea in your post because he was truly patriotic. Now about ARV: You have 2 situations (To live less and die alone or to live longer and take many people with you). Believe me and be realistic, even when somebody is not willing to spread the disease, it will happen just as everyody gets it unwillingly. I have thought about ARVs so much and my conclusion is that it was meant to compat the efforts our governments are putting on preventing the spread of AIDS. Just as many of us here, I have lost so many people due to AIDS and stil some more sick. I have checked the way these people are behaving and to say the truth I can't bear ARV. I will better die and reduce the spread of AIDS. No selfishness! People are always needed, no argument about that. The sooner we stand up against the west, the sooner africa becomes a better place. Botswana is not better than Namiba, Botswana is enjoying favouritism in exchange of everything the west needs! By standing up against the west, I mean reducing the effect the west is having on our domestic affairs [They should stop this 2nd degree of colonialism]. I hate the way they they approach theZimbabwe issue, as if Zimbambwe part of their countries! Bravo Mbeki, he have shown them his position without fearing critism. Good work. Discussion should start within Zimbabwe before it travels to the west!! Re: What should SADC do with Botswana? Goddy Number Posts: 95 Last Post: 08.08.2008, 00:14 [ View User's Posts ] Thursday, 10. July 2008 at 22:30 The truth is the truth! Africans are so funny......., how can one trust the same person colonised him/her, the same person financing terrorists in African continent, the list goes on....., and the same person firstly brought HIV/AIDS Africa and ARV later to be trusted? In my view, think cde BIGDAD took stand on those receives ARV in secret and continue to chill out freely. Botswana? It is very painful to learn that, one of SADC member is becoming a "puppet" [American]. Someone reminded us to note that both Gordon Brown and current president of Botswana not yet elected democratically while they are busy preaching demoracy. Which democracy? Britain? Britain is going mad on Mugabe every second, every minute and hour. They have made it clear...., they are only ready to deal with M.Tsangilai as President of Zimbabwe. Shame on them [Britain]. One should give them the difference b/w domestic and international affairs. please! Re: What should SADC do with Botswana? mind yo stuffs Number Posts: 156 Last Post: 11.10.2008, 00:48 [ View User's Posts ] Thursday, 10. July 2008 at 22:36 Mandume is spitting the truth and i support his spit We have a lot of problems in Africa, and the governments are problems themselves, technology is a matter of trying different experimental things, taking risks, but who among Namibians can spend a day in the lab mixing chemicals? trying make a cellphone or a light bulb? nobody, we just throw books in the study room, dine, watch TV, go to music show, the list goes on,the youth are not active in politic, education system is old school, what kind of high school mathematics without Calculus? only in Namibia, companies are owned by foreigners exploring mineral deposits and investing the profit back to their motherlands. what do our president do? I've been reading African news everyday but he never appeared in any international headlines, even supposed to take advantage of Zimbabwe violence to get known outside the Namibian borders not to disrespect but seems what he say is lacking sense. Re: What should SADC do with Botswana? Sacramento Number Posts: 252 Last Post: 11.10.2008, 08:26 [ View User's Posts ] Friday, 11. July 2008 at 08:20 BIGDAD: If I understand you very well, you seem to agree that the West and Botswana are good when it comes to issues of governance, accountability etc, I said Botswana can be used as a model for African countries willing to develop, so we agree on that one. Of coz we all need each other which is why they , the west become so obsess with the East’s involvement in Africa. Africa is rich but who is benefiting from these riches, a few in position of power of coz, that is a reality, I am a proud African believe me, but I cant turn a blind eye to such gross injustice against the ordinary people, I can afford the basics but have difficulties swallowing and leaving for my dog when I know a person is dying of hunger while I am feeding my dog. On ARV, I don’t get your point, are you saying that my Brother who was to die 10 years ago but still alive (thanks to the ARV) and still working for his family should not be given access to ARV? Now that the disease is here, don’t you think we have to embark upon an aggressive campaign on awareness? Please withdraw your statement on the ARV, or would you wish the same if your relative was to be one of the people on the treatment? We would like to harvest one day and I can’t c that coming given the status quo, and unless we emulate countries like Botswana, we will continue to cultivate without harvesting because the crops will be infected before they are ripe. Re: What should SADC do with Botswana? mandume Number Posts: 224 Last Post: 13.08.2008, 09:22 [ View User's Posts ] Friday, 11. July 2008 at 09:46 BigDaD, am proud Pan Africanist with a clear conscience and mind. And make my judgments based on realities. Of course we can sweet talk our fellow African brothers and sisters to tell them how unpatriotic some countrymen are when they tend to agree with white fellas of Europe and America. But some things are too factual then just even being true. Do I have to give you thousand examples on how Africa depends on Europe and America to start agreeing or what? Lets NOT live in denial to these effect please, its simply too late to say we don’t need Europeans interference in our African affairs any longer. Not at this moment, this should have happened 109 years ago! Like I said and I repeat, “African, problems will only be solved once African Leaders take time to study and understand global settings and how they can maneuver these to benefit their own ppl with the Natural resources they already have” Unpatriotic this may sound to you but it is the reality. About the ARV issue, on contrary I strongly disagree with your perspective, but you reserve your right to be wrong and so am I. And the Zimbambwe issue, I think Mr. Mugabe got himself in the trap by allowing the British to educate him and his fellows and or even choose to speak their language. He should have just stick to his vernacular or learned Swahili in one of Africa’s great Universities. “as the say goes if you can beat them, join them” Africans, if we want to develop our continent and countries that we claim to love so much why don’t we take the Chinese Approach. “these guys “Chinese” really know how to keep it low profile, utilize opportunities and benefit their own ppl and enriching themselves.” You can call them whatever name you like they will come back tomorrow and work, because they know their purpose. Which is contrary to the African Brothers? we simply are busy bothered by simple and silly things and pass the blame games. Just note this, next time our fingers will be pointing to East Europe and Asia if we don’t wake up and smell the hot boiling coffee.” Because these are the new trends of emerging economies and are taping Africa while we are busy mangling with the West and America. Botswana, is doing well and should be apprized by SADC, and used as a developing model for so many dilapidating African states. Love and peace……………………….. Re: What should SADC do with Botswana? second bill gate Number Posts: 13 Last Post: 10.10.2008, 09:20 [ View User's Posts ] Friday, 11. July 2008 at 09:49 I don't have anything to commed in this issure,because two weeks ago i was crossing Bots from Zimbabwe to my home country Namibia.In the mid day i met Botswana police...so i was really in-need to urinate just in the bush,simply because we stand is a bush place, Soon one of the police man saw me,shouting that i don't have the right to do it Bots land,I asked him WHY? He reply to me....You BLACK MAN,pointing to his skin that see i'm not a black man i'm a white man(even he was too black than me) telling me my Friend this is not BOTS this is LONDON.A man is talking saying go to Zim is just like you are going to prison,i reply to him what is in Zim can also happen to to you---soon he said it never happen. I said to him you BUSH MAN. I ask him why are you doing that to me He reply I'M PROUND OF MY ECONOMY If they saw that you are not from Botswana they follow you singing MAKWELE KWELE-----TSAMAYA TSAMAYA. YES product are theee in Bots especially you are talking of ARV but people aredying theee like nobody is business.When its came to prostitute industry AH my dear friend this is their DAILLY BREAD. I SAID THANKS BE HAPPY YOU FOOL POLICE MAN. HE ASKED ME AGAIN,ARE YOU A VAMBO. I SAID TO HIM I'M A SADC PEOPLE [Post edited by: second bill gate on 11/7/08 9:56 AM] Re: What should SADC do with Botswana? Elaeti.nam Number Posts: 204 Last Post: 10.10.2008, 12:55 [ View User's Posts ] Friday, 11. July 2008 at 11:30 Yeah Elaiti likes Botswana's way of governance. But Politically, aaaye. I think they are trying to be the Israel's version of Africa (America's boy). This is probably good for them as country but not good for the rest of Africa. I understand why they are like that, they didn't share the same pain other African countries suffered. The way I see it is that Botswana and Namibia are both competing for best governance position. Botswana is our biggest competition in Africa (South Africa is too Big and Complex). I always gauge us against Botswana, and they gauge themselves against us. @ Varsity in Mzansi, student games between Nams and Bots were always tense. I'm proud to report that We have won most of them. Governancewise our competition with Botswana is good and healthy. But Politicalwise they cannot be a model, otherwise you will have more Kasikili Island issues. I mean this guys wanted to go to war with us over Kasikili, which has nothing. Re: What should SADC do with Botswana? Shambwngala Number Posts: 2 Last Post: 15.07.2008, 19:32 [ View User's Posts ] Friday, 11. July 2008 at 22:32 On Bots Man it is a pity that some leaders and their people can be easily confused i traveled to Botswana but to my surprise to find that Bank of Botswana is just simply Bank Windhoek that means the log and the motto are the same if they are to be good examples in the eyes of the blind leaders and citizen of that country we Namibian could have otherwise have one of their bank here not them to have ours there. Freedom of expression is very important i have been listening to their radio but they don't have platform like ours here where by we have open line chatshow and ewilamanguluka as well as others in other languages on that matter one wonders now where is the participation of the citizen and their contribution. the people there are for ever in SA for study, work and even residing that side gentleman that country has nothing that other African country can learn on most of the professionals there are foreigner from Zambia, Tanzania and Kenya if they are well of where are their peoples then. Look at Gaborone how many tall building are there shopping mall in comparison with the vendors real one can compare at all their biggest and buzy place is the bus station that's where every body tries to make life. Cleaness is a taboo in that country long grasses and cows in the central town if one look well normal streets are not tired there generally speaking there is nothing there. They are labbelled the best in Africa because when the Am text Re: What should SADC do with Botswana? mind yo stuffs Number Posts: 156 Last Post: 11.10.2008, 00:48 [ View User's Posts ] Saturday, 12. July 2008 at 09:19 Botswana is just a developing country, it have gone no where, achieved less and i'm sure they have set visions just like Namibia, i've been in Europe for sometimes and i never heard anybody talking about Botswana, all i here is Egypt and South Africa and rarely Namibia, what's so good In Botswana?? or maybe you people just like the way they are going against Mungambe?????????????????? [Post edited by: mind yo business on 12/7/08 9:20 AM] Re: What should SADC do with Botswana? Sacramento Number Posts: 252 Last Post: 11.10.2008, 08:26 [ View User's Posts ] Sunday, 13. July 2008 at 02:42 Your little encounter with the police does not make sense, you are actually saying he called you a black man you called him a bush man thus Botswana is not better than the rest? We are talking about good governance here my friend and the relationship of some African states with the West. If you want to see how advanced Botswana is, as compared to other African countries, it would probably take more than just a drive trough my brother. Re: What should SADC do with Botswana? vakwetu Number Posts: 19 Last Post: 06.08.2008, 11:50 [ View User's Posts ] Monday, 14. July 2008 at 10:36 Ye brother it is indeed nice to talk about Botswana and i don,t think we are right to judge them because we really don,t know them well as we are trying to speculate, the poor picture of police i think we have the same illeterate police officers in namibia who call others mbweras, just imagine what image do both countty have. just imagine if someone who happen to visit goes to Rundu,Oshakati or Caprivi how many Cattle s and pigs will you find in the location what about dirtyness too? to my opinion if i look at Botswana i will say they are stable and best in Africa because this people got their indepence in 1966 compare them with many African countyr like Zambia and Ghana i think they got indepence at the same time that will tell you that botswana is doing well. onething i can tell you too is Botswana has their own reserve bank where the goverment keep more money for anything i don,t think if we have the same we are too much in overspending unnecessary. My question to Elaiti and others who called Botwasana to be the west pupet. if you read the article of today how much money did Namibia get from America what are we now? sometimes is nice to point a fingers at others what about us this are mugabes enemy why are we accepting the money and how is mugabe going to call us west pupets too or are we special? the way they run their political program is totaly different from us very much people are not too much into politics like us because them don,t take politics personal like the way we do. Botswana goverment and traditional courts work well and people are respected and most minar cases are dealt at the traditional courts . if you look at their transport system i will tell you is the best in Africa , we are not going to compete with them cause them have different system than ours. our problem is we don,t critizes things the way we see them rather than being to loyal that can kill us, because is something is wrong we must say it we are not saying because we hate but we say it to help the copuntry move forward i think Namibia and botswana are two differwent country with different styles of governing this why you always see them ranking number one we are not even second to them so we should just be happy and leave them alone and lets help our country move forward not backwards because them are moving an inch every year and they have more money than we do look at their pula value that can tell you we are not in the same shoes maybe South Africa because our money is the same or how. last but not all kasikilio is very important when it comes to wild enimals ther are many animals crossing to botswana from namibia which in the long run can disadvantage us too . do y ou think their stupid to fight for kasikili and won it i don,t think so ask people in the caprivi about kasikili and they will tell you how ? after all i don,t want to talk about it it is botswana property now lets move forward with what we have. for us even to say military rule we don,t know their constitution leat stick to our affairs brothers what did botswana do us wrong i t hink botswana have more refuggee population from Zimbabwe than us which is not good for their country i will respect them if them are pushing for solutions in zimbabwe. cause their are feeling the pinch to cater for the refugee especialy acoomodating them after botswana is keeping our refugees too we should thank them . Thank you [Post edited by: vakwetu on 14/7/08 10:39 AM] [Post edited by: vakwetu on 14/7/08 10:53 AM] Post Views: 866 Displaying all 18 posts: © 2008 web.com.na About | Press | Contact & Support | Terms & Conditions| Privacy | Imprint Designed for Namibia