Tuesday, 22.05.2012 - Welcome to web.com.na! Online: 8 Members, 70 Guests You are not logged in! Home | Forums   Forum Your last visit was: Tuesday, 22.05.2012, 10:45 [ Search Forum ] Forum Home : Namibia : Political Discussions Displaying posts 1 - 25 of 116 total posts: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - >>> Post Views: 14255 THE PORTUGUESE CREATED AND HANDLED UNITA Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Monday, 16. May 2011 at 16:04 Hi All I know that Cris will only be able to provide his detailed notes on the creation of UNITA in three weeks time. In the meantime, we can get the ball rolling by looking at what Cris has told us so far: Thursday, 12. May 2011 at 09:48: "UNITA never had been created by Swapo (...) UNITA was a creation of the ex fascist portuguese regime, just for fight MPLA. That is a historical fact, and (again) i know it by inside." Thursday, 12. May 2011 at 23:05: "UNITA WAS A CREATION OF THE EX PORTUGUESE FASCIST REGIME. That is a fact that i know by inside (...) You say that i was not there when UNITA was created (...) WRONG, WRONG WRONG. When i say something as a FACT .... is because i know as a FACT. I was there." Saturday, 14. May 2011 at 16:45: "SAVIMBI ...... As far i can remember the full support to Savimbi (of course 'NOT OFFICIAL' ) start around 68/69. But that 'soft support' was in fact from earley stages (...) I just ask you a bit of time, for to see my writings of that time, things that i kept for myself. For 3 weeks I'm out, so give me a bit of time." Sunday, 15. May 2011 at 09:46: "As i said i have not my notes with me now ( i ask for 3 weeks)." OKAY ... the promise is clear; in three weeks time we will have the detailed notes on UNITA's creation by the Portuguese regime. I hope that would contribute imensely to our understanding of that part of African history. Re: THE PORTUGUESE CREATED AND HANDLED UNITA cris Number Posts: 438 Last Post: 16.09.2011, 16:50 [ View User's Posts ] Monday, 16. May 2011 at 23:06 Good evening LENGA You change de subject but not your arrogant attitude. From now, (i told you before) i don't debate things from the past. When you want a serious debate ( that you can win - again-) let's talk , think together , be polite , about the future. I'm ready to learn with you , about the future of Namibia , the future of Africa Continent. Maybe will atract young people, or more young generation , noit just those 2 old fool from the past. Be realistic. Maybe if we was in Angola , we could rethink the history. But, I'm not debating the history of the strugle of the namibian people, in this forum , neither i could , as i'm just here e learner. Now , what make you so sure that you know all the true about something from the history of Angola? I don't know all. Neither in fact is important at this moment for angolan citizens. So you can close , also ,this subject. To this one , you don't get me involved. Let's talk about the future of economy in Namibia , let's give our humbel contribution , in democratic way. We can learn one with another. See you in 3 weeks time, in another forum Re: THE PORTUGUESE CREATED AND HANDLED UNITA Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Tuesday, 17. May 2011 at 08:33 Good morning Cris, If you believe that reminding someone of the promise he made is being arrogant, then I am sorry for being that arrogant but I can not change that. You made a promise that in three weeks time you would provide us with your detailed notes on how, when and where UNITA was created and handled by the Portuguese regime. You made the promise, freely, knowing very well that we are not in Angola. But being in Africa and being Africans, I believe it is very important that we have a correct understanding of our African history (including Angolan history), a history based on true facts, not factoids flown around by revisionists who want to white-wash their own history for opportunistic and sinister ideological purposes. CRIS: "But, I'm not debating the history of the strugle of the namibian people, in this forum, neither i could, as i'm just here e learner." MY RESPONSE: That is strange, coming as it does from someone who a few days ago was so fired up about history and who sounded so sure about what he was saying about South African Nazi, about Namibia and Angolan history. But no, he is just “e learner” … but a bad learner, I should add, who disputes what he is being taught. CRIS: "Now, what make you so sure that you know all the true about something from the history of Angola?” MY RESPONSE: Do you watch TV? Do you read newspapers and magazines? If so, you know that it is normal for an Australian to be an expert on Middle East affairs; or an American to be an expert on East Africa politics; or a Russian to be an expert on Brazilian affairs, etc. Why, then, do you think, a Namibian can not be an expert on Angolan history? Did you not pretend to know every thing from “inside” because you were there? Well, I was also there for over 13 years, first fighting alongside UNITA against the Portuguese and the South Africans, but later fighting alongside FAPLA, Cubans etc. against UNITA and the South Africans. CRIS: "I don't know all. Neither in fact is important at this moment for angolan citizens." MY RESPONSE: That is good you admit you “don’t know all”, not even “from inside” as you claimed earlier. However, the fact remains that history is always important. CRIS: "So you can close, also, this subject. To this one, you don't get me involved." MY RESPONSE: Thank you. At least I have demonstrated to the over 500 lurkers who were following our discussion at the Bin Laden thread and may well migrate to this one (already numbered 20-plus) that you made a false promise when you repeatedly told us that in three weeks time, you would share with us your old notes on the creation of UNITA by the fascist Portuguese regime. But no, you are just “e learner” who, at one stage, started pretending to be an expert on Angolan history. CRIS: "Let's talk about the future of economy in Namibia, let's give our humbel contribution, in democratic way. We can learn one with another. See you in 3 weeks time, in another forum." MY RESPONSE: Good! Re: THE PORTUGUESE CREATED AND HANDLED UNITA cris Number Posts: 438 Last Post: 16.09.2011, 16:50 [ View User's Posts ] Tuesday, 17. May 2011 at 16:27 Hi Lenga So first you fought with Unita against Portuguese army and South Africa army........(i came back) After you fought with MPLA against UNITA........... See......................................ops.....a contradition. Maybe......just maybe......i'm wrong or talking rubish. Until 1975 there was no South Africa army inside of Angola, fighting UNITA. Just for to finish..... in 1968 , a very clever portuguese pm MARCELO CAETANO , that try to find a resolution for the ex colonies wars, try to come out fron that just by keep the regime alive in Portugal ( europe), but as i say clever as he was, decided to give a "hide" hand to one of the groups in Angola, in a way to auto determination ( a possible independence in 50 yrs time). And that is the point , that i try to explain to you. Savimbi was in fact serving the interests of the ex portuguese regime. If MPLA say the same now........well.........they are not far way from the true. When i say that i don't know the inside facts of the strugle for independence of Namibia, i say exactly that. As a outsider , i was giving support to SWAPO in the fight for inde- pendence and against the appartheid. What was going inside of SWAPO was not my concern. I not expert in Angolan History , but give mre also the credit ..i know the history of portuguese history. And just at least , in the issue of Savimbi , there is some connection. You know a bit, from your side , but you don't accept the the another side got some knowledge too. When i say that you are arrogant.....is because you are. I read your imputs in others foruns ....and you behave as a arrogant...only you know. Maybe that's why you did not made a political carrer. For that you need be polite. So....to the next forum. And learn...........to be polite Re: THE PORTUGUESE CREATED AND HANDLED UNITA Aantu yaaNehale Number Posts: 69 Last Post: 18.05.2011, 11:22 [ View User's Posts ] Tuesday, 17. May 2011 at 16:43 Lenga2030 tell us about yourself You said you fought as PLAN man, can you tell us a bit of your history? when did you leav SWAPO? Why did you leave? Re: THE PORTUGUESE CREATED AND HANDLED UNITA cris Number Posts: 438 Last Post: 16.09.2011, 16:50 [ View User's Posts ] Tuesday, 17. May 2011 at 17:41 Don't put those questions ,sir. Lenga will not answer with all true to those issues. I only start to think that Lenga , is just more one that try to be the BOSS, but SWAPO expell him just for that. Lack of polite atitudes. So as inside of SWAPO he did not well , here he is in web foruns, show that he know everything , from religion ( just the catholic point of view , that i respect, but is not mine), politics ( oh lala - he know more than any one), and have a gess.........will know much more in ECONOMICS than me , you, any economist , etc or lecture in University. That is where i want see the real Lenga. Let him came , let him came , in his own time. Once a philosopher said : I JUST KNOW THAT I DON'T KNOW NOTHING. Including in economics , i'm just a learner. Let him came , let him came Re: THE PORTUGUESE CREATED AND HANDLED UNITA Aantu yaaNehale Number Posts: 69 Last Post: 18.05.2011, 11:22 [ View User's Posts ] Tuesday, 17. May 2011 at 18:21 I am just wondering, he always attack people that are supporting Namibia. In another post Boereseun said Americans have double standard because they killed Bin Laden but they did not kill Sam Nujoma who was apparently a leader of terrorist organisation. Lenga2030 kept quiet about that, I find that funny because he said he was a PLAN fighter under commander in chief Sam Nujoma. After Superman commended on that issue, Lenga2030 called him Sub-man. Maybe Swapo did something to him, if it is like that than I understand. Otherwise his views don't make sense. He talks good about UNITA who supported Colonial forces against Namibia but talk bad about Namibian fighters. He must tell us his story than maybe we will understant him. Re: THE PORTUGUESE CREATED AND HANDLED UNITA Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Tuesday, 17. May 2011 at 18:49 Hi Guys, I can see that this thread, for all practical purposes declared stilborn by Cris, is alive and kicking. Good! I am a little bit busy now but I will be back within 24 hours. BTW, Aantu yaaNahale, you are welcome. Re: THE PORTUGUESE CREATED AND HANDLED UNITA cris Number Posts: 438 Last Post: 16.09.2011, 16:50 [ View User's Posts ] Tuesday, 17. May 2011 at 22:23 Hi Aantu I could not be more clear. I don't know at all Lenga. I belive that in the past , he was a Plan fighter , from SWAPO. But now......is very very far from SWAPO for sure. Again , is also you that say " UNITA who supported Colonial forces". That is also my knowledge of the situation or relation UNITA - ex Colonial Dictadurship portuguese regime. Lenga say no , about that. But this subject "UNITA" in fact not interest for me. What we don't know is where Lenga will stop. From Swapo....to......... who knows? For me , I'll carry on with my principles, and give my support to who deserve it , as SWAPO , MPLA ,etc. Obs: attacks to me from LENGA ? Not afraid at all. I'll keep pushing him to the limit, just for we know , who is the real Lenga. Let him came , in is own time. Re: THE PORTUGUESE CREATED AND HANDLED UNITA Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Wednesday, 18. May 2011 at 08:20 Hi Cris and Aantu yaaNahale, I am back like I promised you last night. CRIS: “So first you fought with Unita against Portuguese army and South Africa army (...) After you fought with MPLA against UNITA. See (...) a contradition.” MY RESPONSE: I think you omitted a crucial word between “after” and “you fought with …" and that totally distorted the meaning of your post. Any way ... SWAPO fought, first alongside UNITA and after THAT (the word you left out) SWAPO fought alongside the MPLA's FAPLA. That is not a contradiction but historic fact. Ask any ex-PLAN fighter who joined before 1974 … you will hear the same story. CRIS: “Maybe......just maybe......i'm wrong or talking rubish.” MY RESPONSE: You are wrong yes, but talking rubbish? I don’t know! CRIS: “Until 1975 there was no South Africa army inside of Angola, fighting UNITA. MY RESPONSE: I have to be straightforward with you and simply call you ignorant. South African Air Force helicopters were deployed in Angola since the late 1960’s to assist the Portuguese forces fight UNITA and to prevent SWAPO fighters from infiltrating Namibia through the Cuando Cubango “district”. CRIS: “Just for to finish..... in 1968 , a very clever portuguese pm MARCELO CAETANO , that try to find a resolution for the ex colonies wars, try to come out fron that just by keep the regime alive in Portugal ( europe), but as i say clever as he was, decided to give a "hide" hand to one of the groups in Angola, in a way to auto determination ( a possible independence in 50 yrs time). And that is the point, that i try to explain to you.” MY RESPONSE: Even without admitting it publicly, every one here can see you have changed your story. You no longer believe UNITA was "created by the Portuguese regime". You now believe UNITA was a genuine liberation movement that was later hijacked by Caetano’s cleverly hidden hand. That is the alternative I proposed, as a way of de-programming you. You have reacted very positively to the "therapy". But what you are presenting now is a different version of the same old lie, first published by Mozambican Communist Aquino de Braganca in Afroque-Asie magazine on July 3, 1974. I know that, given enough time, you would abandon that lie as well. CRIS: “Savimbi was in fact serving the interests of the ex portuguese regime. If MPLA say the same now........well.........they are not far way from the true.” MY RESPONSE: Yes, that is exactly what I said. The alternative version is not far awa from the truth, it just a distortion of the facts ... and any distortion of facts is a lie. Now, ask youself how Savimbi served the interest of the ex-Portuguese regime by attacking the Portuguese forces and sabotaging the Benguela Railway line? Do you know why Savimbi was summoned to Zambia by Kaunda and detained before he was deported to Egypt at Nasser intervened? Was Savimbi detained and deported because a) he served the Portuguese interests or b) because his guerrillas sabotaged the CFB, the main artery for Zambian exports? Just think a little bit about those questions. Re: THE PORTUGUESE CREATED AND HANDLED UNITA Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Wednesday, 18. May 2011 at 08:34 CRIS: “When i say that i don't know the inside facts of the strugle for independence of Namibia, i say exactly that. As a outsider , i was giving support to SWAPO in the fight for independence and against the appartheid. What was going inside of SWAPO was not my concern.” MY RESPONSE: Point taken! CRIS: “I not expert in Angolan History, but give mre also the credit .. i know the history of portuguese history.” MY RESPONSE: No, you don’t know “the history of Portuguese history” either. You are just “e learner”. CRIS: “And just at least , in the issue of Savimbi, there is some connection.” MY RESPONSE: It seems you have sighted a phantasm -- again! CRIS: “You know a bit, from your side, but you don't accept the the another side got some knowledge too.” MY RESPONSE: I accept that the “other side got some knowledge too”; that is why I expressed the hope of seeing your old notes in three weeks time. CRIS: “When i say that you are arrogant.....is because you are.” MY RESPONSE: Okay … something must be so when Cris says it is so. And that is not arrogance? CRIS: “I read your imputs in others foruns .... and you behave as a arrogant ... only you know.” MY RESPONSE: What is the alternative? Do you want me to come here loudly proclaiming “I KNOW NOTHING!”? When I don’t know something I either ask, or I remain silent on the matter. And there are many threads I don’t participate for that very reason. CRIS: “Maybe that's why you did not made a political carrer. For that you need be polite. MY RESPONSE: Is that so? Why then do we see politicians attacking and insulting others left and right? Is that what being polite means? CRIS: “So....to the next forum. And learn...........to be polite” MY RESPONSE: I will try my best and thanks for your advice. Re: THE PORTUGUESE CREATED AND HANDLED UNITA Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Wednesday, 18. May 2011 at 08:44 AANTU YAANEHALE: "Lenga2030 tell us about yourself You said you fought as PLAN man, can you tell us a bit of your history? when did you leav SWAPO? Why did you leave." MY RESPONSE: Welcome brother (or sister). By the way, did you read the topic of this thread before you started posting? If not, let me remind you that this thread is about the alleged creation of UNITA by the Portuguese regime (nothing more, nothing less). And I started this thread exactly to end the persistent hijacking of the Bin Laden thread. Now, do you have anything to say about the topic of this thread? If not, go in peace. If you are instead interested in discussing other people, start a new thread and lead by example, i.e. start by saying every thing about yourself and then others may follow your example. Re: THE PORTUGUESE CREATED AND HANDLED UNITA Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Wednesday, 18. May 2011 at 09:06 Hi Cris, I dismiss your post (below) as petty gossip that has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. But “she ya keyulu oshe ya okupembwa”, so I will address it nonetheless. CRIS: “Don't put those questions ,sir. Lenga will not answer with all true to those issues. I only start to think that Lenga, is just more one that try to be the BOSS, but SWAPO expell him just for that. Lack of polite atitudes. So as inside of SWAPO he did not well, here he is in web foruns, show that he know everything from religion (just the catholic point of view, that i respect, but is not mine), politics (oh lala - he know more than any one).” MY RESPONSE: Dear lurkers, be warned: we are now flying at super-sonic speed to a new planet where knowing as little as possible is considered a strong point, while those having broad knowledge are despised. Here, at this planet (our new home), the guy who doesn’t know that the South Africans participated in the war against Hitler; the guy who doesn’t know that the SAAF was deployed in Angola before 1975 (in fact the guy who knows as little as humanly possible) is the Judge! You all know what I mean! CRIS: “and have a gess.........will know much more in ECONOMICS than me, you, any economist, etc or lecture in University. MY RESPONSE: Objection! Those are speculations with no basis in fact. CRIS: “That is where i want see the real Lenga. Let him came, let him came, in his own time.” MY RESPONSE: And in turn, Lenga2030 may also want to see the real Cris, but please … not under this topic. CRIS: Once a philosopher said : I JUST KNOW THAT I DON'T KNOW NOTHING. Including in economics, i'm just a learner. Let him came, let him came.” MY RESPONSE: And here I am ... are you happy now? Re: THE PORTUGUESE CREATED AND HANDLED UNITA Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Wednesday, 18. May 2011 at 09:45 Hi Aantu yaaNehale, I see that your second post here also failed to address the topic we are discussing here. You seem to have nothing to contribute to the topic, preferring to rather hijack the thread and steer it into the wrong direction. AANTU YAANEHALE: “I am just wondering, he always attack people that are supporting Namibia.” MY RESPONSE: I am 100 % sure you can not provide a single example to support your false allegation. Can you show where I attacked people for supporting Namibia (I give you 24 hours to provide that evidence). AANTU YAANEHALE: “In another post Boereseun said Americans have double standard because they killed Bin Laden but they did not kill Sam Nujoma who was apparently a leader of terrorist organisation. Lenga2030 kept quiet about that …” MY RESPONSE: I hope you still remember what I said, namely that I rarely interact with Boerseun and I stated my reasons. But you deliberately forgot to tell us who else kept quiet when Boerseun stated the above. What did Cris say about that statement? And what did you say about that statement? In fact, after Boerseun made that statement, Cris thanked him saying he (Boerseun) is a nice boy. AANTU YAANEHALE: “…I find that funny because he said he was a PLAN fighter under commander in chief Sam Nujoma.” MY RESPONSE: I rather find it funny that the guy who prefers the killing of Sam Nujoma is thanked as a nice guy and you keep quiet! AANTU YAANEHALE: “After Superman commended on that issue, Lenga2030 called him Sub-man.” MY RESPONSE: I happen to know that Superman is not a real name. For instance when 0Ghost was “renamed” as Zero-Shiluli, I could see the humor, but it seems some people are too serious they have no time for lighter notes. AANTU YAANEHALE: “Maybe Swapo did something to him, if it is like that than I understand. Otherwise his views don't make sense. He talks good about UNITA who supported Colonial forces against Namibia but talk bad about Namibian fighters.” MY RESPONSE: The challenge is already on the table. You show me, and all participants at these forums, where I supported UNITA and where I talked bad about Namibian fighters. Provide the posts (and the respective the dates and times) in which I, Lenga2030, supported UNITA and attacked Namibian fighters. I give you 24 hours. Failure to produce the posts, I will in future refer to you as an unashamed liar. [I can see some people consider the presentation of facts as a form of support or attack. The irony is, however, that I stated here (and it is on record) that Savimbi committed cruel atrocities against his own people; I also stated here that SWAPO liberated Namibia … was that a form of supporting UNITA and a form of attacking Namibian fighters?] Come on guys … you can do better than that! AANTU YAANEHALE: “He must tell us his story than maybe we will understant him.” MY RESPONSE: What about leading by example? Yes, having Aantu yaaNehale telling his story (in a different thread of course) so that Lenga2030 may follow suit. Re: THE PORTUGUESE CREATED AND HANDLED UNITA Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Wednesday, 18. May 2011 at 09:58 Hi Cris, You made my day … I laughed out loud when you said “What we don't know is where Lenga will stop. From Swapo .... to ...... who knows? For me, I'll carry on with my principles, and give my support to who deserve it , as SWAPO , MPLA, etc.” But every body here knows that Cris keep changing his principles. Cris is, in fact, unprincipled (that is, by the way, how the “polite” politicians refer to their opponents). Cris has changed his principles from a Portuguese paratrooper to a radical Communist; from a radical Communist to (whatever!); from Mormonism to (whatever!). But now you see your changing principles in the mirror and attribute them to Lenga2030 … that is called “projection”. Re: THE PORTUGUESE CREATED AND HANDLED UNITA Aantu yaaNehale Number Posts: 69 Last Post: 18.05.2011, 11:22 [ View User's Posts ] Wednesday, 18. May 2011 at 11:22 My bad!!! 1. I did not know that you do not interact with Boereseun. 2. I did not know that calling someone Sub-man is humor. 3. I said you talk good about UNITA and bad about Namibian fighters (Not that you support UNITA). If you have never said anything good about UNITA and not anything bad about Namibian fighters. My Bad again. 4. Ando oto ningi ala she ya keyulu oshe ya oku pembwa e to tu lombwele kombinga yoye. But it's ok if you don't want tell us. I'm just curious. Natse opo tu li tu hole oku uva, okwa tiwa curiosity killed the cat. Wa ti ngiini? 1.SWAPO liberated Namibia? Napaye ongonyo opo. 2.Savimbi commited cruel atrocities against his own people? Nhima ngono osho owala e li ngaaka. Sorry to my non-Oshiwambo readers, Some phrases just sounds better in Oshiwambo. Re: THE PORTUGUESE CREATED AND HANDLED UNITA Opportunist Number Posts: 1119 Last Post: 15.05.2012, 15:31 [ View User's Posts ] Wednesday, 18. May 2011 at 13:09 hahahahahah..., Political opportunists are just that. After they praise-sang Lenga2030-thinking he is a YESPERSON to them- now they have started their attempt to overpower him/her for being arrogant and, apparently, he/she think knows everything...hahahahahahah...If you have no principle, that is what happens. Cris, Just admit that you were doing what normally survive African politicians: Making empty promises and lying. Now they want to dump a toxic LENGA2030 into the dustbin where they have thrown Boerseun and those who were chased from SWAPO.hohohohohoh....tah! Re: THE PORTUGUESE CREATED AND HANDLED UNITA Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Wednesday, 18. May 2011 at 13:34 AANTU YAANEHALE: My bad!!! 1. I did not know that you do not interact with Boereseun." MY RESPONSE: Now you know ... that I rarely interact with Boersuen (note the word "rarely"). AANTU YAANEHALE: "2. I did not know that calling someone Sub-man is humor." MY RESPONSE: I did not call anybody sub-man; I simply made fun of a pseudonym. AANTU YAANEHALE: "3. I said you talk good about UNITA and bad about Namibian fighters (Not that you support UNITA). MY RESPONSE: But where did I do that? You seem to have a problem differentiating between 1. A statement of facts, and 2. Talking "good" about something or someone. All I did is state facts -- whether "good" or "bad" is down to me. AANTU YAANEHALE: "If you have never said anything good about UNITA and not anything bad about Namibian fighters. My Bad again." MY RESPONSE: I am not here to say "good" or "bad" things. I am here to state facts -- regardless of whether you classify them as "good" or "bad". AANTU YAANEHALE: "4. Ando oto ningi ala she ya keyulu oshe ya oku pembwa e to tu lombwele kombinga yoye." MY RESPONSE: It seems you are frightened by the prospect of talking about yourself. Now tell us about yourself, thereby setting a good example that may be followed by others. One, Two, Three ... Go! AANTU YAANEHALE: "But it's ok if you don't want tell us. I'm just curious. Natse opo tu li tu hole oku uva, okwa tiwa curiosity killed the cat. MY RESPONSE: I am not that curious about who Aantu yaaNehale might be in real life. I know the reason why people are allowed to post, here, using psedonyms. AANTU YAANEHALE: "Wa ti ngiini? 1.SWAPO liberated Namibia? Napaye ongonyo opo." MY RESPONSE: Yes, that is what I said. The fact that you are now going into a wild celebration means you came here covered with prejudice and did not care to learn the facts. AANTU YAANEHALE: "2.Savimbi commited cruel atrocities against his own people? Nhima ngono osho owala e li ngaaka." MY RESPONSE: Yes, osho owala e li ngaaka kuume! He killed Dr. Wilson dos Santos, Tito Chingunji, Dr. Vakulukuta, Sangumba ... and burned witches at a parade in Jamba. You see, there are enough facts that can be used to destroy UNITA's credibility. No need to resort to lies like "UNITA was created by the Portuguese regime". AANTU YAANEHALE: "Sorry to my non-Oshiwambo readers, Some phrases just sounds better in Oshiwambo. MY RESPONSE: That is true! Re: THE PORTUGUESE CREATED AND HANDLED UNITA Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Wednesday, 18. May 2011 at 13:41 Hi Opportunist, Welcome brother, but ... you too are out of topic. What is your comment of UNITA being a creature of the Portuguese regime? Re: THE PORTUGUESE CREATED AND HANDLED UNITA cris Number Posts: 438 Last Post: 16.09.2011, 16:50 [ View User's Posts ] Wednesday, 18. May 2011 at 16:27 HI lenga I ANSWER WITH THE POINT OF ex PM MARCELO CAETANO .Answer , before to the comarades that want to know what you done after to be PLAN fighter. No i did not change my principles.....you looks that yes ,you done. For me you can change from SWAPO , to......, and to....... You are free to do that. Savimbi subject is dead for me from now. Let's talk about Economic Development / Empoyment , etc etc in the Africa Continent. I just wait for you in the next subject of ECONOMICS , EMPLOYMENT ,etc. Say more serious subjects. SEE YOU THERE Re: THE PORTUGUESE CREATED AND HANDLED UNITA Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Wednesday, 18. May 2011 at 17:48 Hi Cris, Since you insist on saying I changed from SWAPO (disregarding my humble requests that we should remain on topic) let me be honest with you, once again, and give you some practical examples. Do you know that: 1. Chief Justice of Namibia was once a card-carrying SWAPO member? 2. Judge President of Namibia was once a card-carrying SWAPO member? 3. The Inspector-General of the Namibian Police was once a card-carrying SWAPO member? 4. That those I mentioned in #1, #2 and #3 are no longer card-carrying SWAPO members? 5. Do we, as a result, accuse them of having changed from SWAPO? Here are the correct answers: 1. Yes! 2. Yes! 3. Yes! 4. Yes! 5. No! In short, one can become apolitical without necessarily turning against what he once stood for ... I wonder whether you have the capacity to understand that. CRIS: "No i did not change my principles ..... you looks that yes, you done." MY RESPONSE: You seem to use words without knowing their meaning. If you were once a radical Communist and you are no longer a radical Communist, that means you no longer believe in the principles of radical Communism; in other words, your ideological principles have changed. Again, if you were once a Mormon and you are no longer a Mormon, that means you no longer believe in the principles of Mormonism; in other words, your religious principles have changed. I hope you got it now, my "learner"! CRIS: "Savimbi subject is dead for me from now." MY RESPONSE: After rejecting the facts, yes, that is the only way out for you to avoid further drubbing. You do not want to subject your so-called old notes, to the searching light of the truth. Better get out quickly ... hahahaha! CHRIS: "Let's talk about Economic Development / Empoyment , etc etc in the Africa Continent. I just wait for you in the next subject of ECONOMICS, EMPLOYMENT, etc. Say more serious subjects. SEE YOU THERE". MY RESPONSE: I have taken note of your invitation, but I am not making any promise whatsoever at this stage! Re: THE PORTUGUESE CREATED AND HANDLED UNITA cris Number Posts: 438 Last Post: 16.09.2011, 16:50 [ View User's Posts ] Wednesday, 18. May 2011 at 22:19 Hi Lenga Last but not least. Do you know that the actual Presidente of European Union, Dr Jose Durao Barroso , today a liberal democrata or social democrata, was a radical maoista, that for lot's of times stand against a appartheid and also for independece of Namibia.? Do you think that the radical communism of 60's, still now the same? Do you know the evolution of the communist parties from Europe , from orthodox communism to social democracy? Do you remember ex Brazilian President , LULA , from troytkista to so- cial democrat. ? Those are changes of the times, evolution in the way to think. Does'nt mean leave the party where they start. Is the SWAPO of 2011 as the SWAPO of end of 60's , in political programme? Evolution is a change. Religion: is not politics. Against you point of view , mormonism is regard as christian faith. So why not change from mormon church to Methodist Church or Church of England, or if you want to became part of the Roman Catholic Church. LAST OF SAVIMBI ( and be sure that is my last point): Ex "fascist" portuguese PM , Dr Marcelo Caetano , wrote in exile , ( i think) 3 books , as MEMORIAS (memories - things that he could remenber ). In one of them , cames "black on white" the "clandestine" relation between Savimbi ( may i say that he MC never mention UNITA ) but just Savimbi, and consider Savimbi just as a tribal leader , ready to do anything for to be THE BOSS ( a buffom in other words). Now, if he ( Savimbi) lie to his own army , if he lie to you.............sorry is not my fault. Obs: if in hollidays i had been invited to give a hand of consultancy in a economic project. So just for few weeks , months , I'll be off. Don't worry , I 'LL BACK in the economic field ( for sure that you are better than me) Re: THE PORTUGUESE CREATED AND HANDLED UNITA Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Thursday, 19. May 2011 at 07:52 Hi Cris, You keep bidding farewell to this thread, but you keep coming back like an alcoholic who every day solemnly promises “this is my last glass of whiskey”. I doubt whether your “last but not least” is really the last. I have learned never to take your promises seriously. CRIS: “Last but not least.” MY RESPONSE: It remains to be seen whether that will finally be the last. CRIS: “Do you know that the actual Presidente of European Union, Dr Jose Durao Barroso, today a liberal democrata or social democrata, was a radical maoista, that for lot's of times stand against a appartheid and also for independece of Namibia? Do you think that the radical communism of 60's, still now the same?” MY RESPONSE: A lot of people change as time goes. They never deny that. In fact I said in one of the threads that “when facts change, a wise man changes his mind”. But you, Cris, also change and then deny ever having changed. That is the difference. CRIS: “Do you know the evolution of the communist parties from Europe, from orthodox communism to social democracy? Do you remember ex Brazilian President, LULA, from troytkista to so-cial democrat.? Those are changes of the times, evolution in the way to think.” MY RESPONSE: Change is inevitable. Normally there are only to options for politicians: Either the party changes with the times taking along its members, or the party is left behind and members move on. That is why you see people “moving on” when some parties refuse to adapt to the changing times. The only problem here is that you admit having changed and immediately deny that you changed. CRIS: “Does'nt mean leave the party where they start.” MY RESPONSE: It all depends. If the party adapts to the changing times, then no need to leave, but if the party refuses to adapt to the changing times, then people are entitled to leave. That is why Sam Nujoma left SWANU to found SWAPO. That is why Savimbi left UPA/FNLA to found UNITA. That is why Ndabaningi Sithole and Robert Mugabe broke away from ZAPU to form ZANU. Do you think they acted wrongly? (I have no hope whatsoever of ever seeing you repond to that question) CRIS: “Is the SWAPO of 2011 as the SWAPO of end of 60's, in political programme? Evolution is a change.” MY RESPONSE: No, SWAPO has been doing very well in adapting to the changing times. Maybe not good enough to every one’s satisfaction, but change there was. Re: THE PORTUGUESE CREATED AND HANDLED UNITA Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Thursday, 19. May 2011 at 08:05 CRIS: "Religion: is not politics. Against you point of view, mormonism is regard as christian faith.” MY RESPONSE: Regarded as “Christian faith” by whom? Well, simply because some people regard themselves as Christians does not mean they are. Christians believe in only one eternal God; Mormons believe in a god who was once a man and then became god through his own effort. Mormons teach that humans can also become gods if only they try as hard as the other guy who eventually became god. That is not Christianity my brother and I am happy you left. (Well, we are now miles away from the original topic … you are to blame for all this -- hahahaha). CRIS: “So why not change from mormon church to Methodist Church or Church of England, or if you want to became part of the Roman Catholic Church.” MY RESPONSE: Nothing wrong really. The only problem is that you do not try to first understand what I am saying. I did not say change is bad. We see change all over. But you keep using double standards: you say people should not leave the political parties they were before, but Cris is free to leave the Church he was before. Those are double standards. Re: THE PORTUGUESE CREATED AND HANDLED UNITA Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Thursday, 19. May 2011 at 08:32 CRIS: “LAST OF SAVIMBI (and be sure that is my last point): Ex "fascist" portuguese PM, Dr Marcelo Caetano, wrote in exile, (i think) 3 books, as MEMORIAS (memories - things that he could remenber).” MY RESPONSE: You are so desperate that you have now to depend on what former dictator Caetano said. That is like depending on what P.W. Botha says about the liberation struggle of Namibia. You are now like a drowning man, grabbing at whatever object in his sight. You have been so indoctrinated to believe Savimbi collaborated with the Portuguese, that you are no longer able to look at contrary evidence. After failing to prove that UNITA was created by the Portuguese regime, you moved to Plan-B, i.e. that it was only Savimbi but not UNITA who collaborated with the Portuguese. And for this lie you have to depend on what ex dictator Caetano wrote. It is no longer because you “were there”. Funny! CRIS: “In one of them, cames "black on white" the "clandestine" relation between Savimbi (may i say that he MC never mention UNITA) but just Savimbi, and consider Savimbi just as a tribal leader, ready to do anything for to be THE BOSS (a buffom in other words).” MY RESPONSE: But Cris, are you really interested in what happened? I can tell you what happened if you are interested. There was contact between Portuguese forces and UNITA. Those contacts were facilitated by the timber explorers. Those contacts had a specific purpose. If you want me to tell you the truth about the whole affair just say so, but first you have to demonstrate you are willing to listen and not just in blindly peddling around your allegations based on books written by fascist/dictator Caetano. CRIS: “Now, if he (Savimbi) lie to his own army, if he lie to you ............. sorry is not my fault.” MY RESPONSE: We are not discussing what Savimbi told his army or told me, we are discussing your allegation that UNITA was created by the Portuguese regime. But I am happy you have abandoned that lie. Unfortunately you fell in the arms of your former boss Caetano. You are now propagating what he wrote, as divine truth. 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