Tuesday, 06.01.2009 - Welcome to web.com.na! Online: 12 Members, 20 Guests You are not logged in! Home | Forums   Forum Your last visit was: Tuesday, 06.01.2009, 10:53 [ Search Forum ] Forum Home : Namibia : Political Discussions Displaying posts 1 - 25 of 42 total posts: 1 - 2 - >>> Post Views: 3895 Tribalist RDP VS the Nationalist SWAPO a People's Organisation Elaeti.nam Number Posts: 272 Last Post: 05.01.2009, 15:32 [ View User's Posts ] Saturday, 05. January 2008 at 20:23 First let me wish you all a productive 2008. The festive season provided the opportunity for us to be with our famillies and to do some soul searching about ourselves and our beloved Namibia. Given new political development in our country with the formation of RDP, People need to think deeply before making their choices. Since Independence we have achieved a lot in comparison to other African countries, but there is still a lot of challenges that need to be tackled. As a nation we give out a tender every five years through the ECN to Political parties which if win, is provided Tax Payers' money to take Namibia through the second phase of our liberation, Economic Emancipation. Parties then gives us their Bids (manifestos) so that we can choose the one with the best realistic solution. Apart from Manifestos we also looks at other qualities such as the Ideology, credibility of fielded candidates etc. Since Independence we have been giving the tender to SWAPO, probably because of it's ideology and historical reasons (I wonder if people realy looked at Manifestos - Anyway, manifestos must be there but them alone are not enough). In 2009 we will again give out the tender. We more or less know a lot about older parties and SWAPO stands out to be the best among them. Now there is a little known RDP on the block. So one should not be surprised if RDP dominates national debates this year. COD dominated debates in 1999 but they proved to be useless. Within less than ten years of their formation they have already collapsed, just imagine what could have happened if we gave them a tender in 1999 or 2004?. This in itself is a Warning that we real need to scrutinise this new parties. If a party does not have any ideology that holds itself together ? how can it govern a country? New parties always claim to be more democratic, but we all know that Democracy is now a Political Buzzword. My initial observation of RDP (as seen in my other posts late last year) is that, they don't qualify to be given the tender because to begin with, they don,t even have a clear ideology or vision for that matter on which to build their Bid (Manifesto), In fact as a new party the first thing they should have done is tell us what their policies are. They have NONE, meaning they are Non Starters. Where do they stand on the Political Spectrum? Leftist? Centrist or Rightist? nobody knows. During the festive season intense campaigns took place in the north. I was lucky to be there so that I can hear for myself, It was an opportunity to see what RDP real stands for. Ladies and Gentleman if you are not satisfied by SWAPO's perfomance and you thought the solution has arrived I have bad news for you. RDP is not a solution, they are much worse, probably much worse than many other opposition parties in Namibia. They are: 1. Tribalist 2. Lacks policies to solve the people's problem 3. Opportunistic 4. Their co-ordinator's are ill informed To clarify I will look at each of the above points individually. 1.TRIBALIST RDP is a Kwanyama based organisation, as a Kwanyama myself I don't see any reason why there should be a party for Kwanyamas, I think it is a dangerous idea. What comfort me is that the majority of Kwanyamas are not interested in this tribal politics except for those only interested in themselves and the ones that got misled due to ignorance. Anyway what interest of the Kwanyamas does RDP has at heart. They are trying to use this great tribe for their own interests. I seriously don't get this guys, apparently Kwanyamas are being sidelined in SWAPO, but a SWAPO and the country's president is a Kwanyama. A pamphlets were distributed discouraging all Kwanyamas not to attend the SWAPO rally at Helao Nafidi, the pamphlet had a Kwanyama tone all over it. Why is it like that? Is this One Namibia One Nation? While SWAPO has worked hard to unite the nation that was divided by the coloniser,s Odentaal plan, RDP is busy Undoing it. At their rally some people in front chairs were seen wearing T-Shirts with Mandume ya Ndemufayo printed on it. What is a significance of this. Yes Mandume yaNdemufayo is our legend, but if one wants to celebrate our yestyear heroes why Mandume only. Remember the rally was in Ondonga tribal area, so why not put on Nehale LyaMpingana? and when they do a rally in Gibeon they put on Hendrick Witbooi? A cousin of mine asked me which party I currently support. I told him that I'm not a member ( I don't have any membership card) of any party but I support SWAPO. He said He respects my stand, but He felt that it was odd, especially because he sees me as a well informed person so He expected me to be RDP. I asked why? He simply said because I'm a Kwanyama. He believes that RDP is a Kwanyama's party. That just tells you how people are misled into playing tribal politics for the benefit of few sellfish politicians. 2. LACKS POLICIES TO SOLVE PEOPLE'S PROBLEM Since the creation of RDP I asked it's supporters to provide me it's strategies for solving the Nation's problem. SWAPO for example has ETSIP for the Education system. What's RDPs equivalent to ETSIP? SWAPOs Founding president came up with Vision 2030 to be implemented through MTEF and NDPs such as NDP1, NDP2, NDP3 etc. What is RDPs Equivalent to Vision 2030. I had an opportunity to speak to an RDP coordinator who wanted to recruit me. I asked him these questions but He could not answer me directly He was just criticising SWAPO. I said fine, SWAPO lost some Battles but they are atleast winning the War. How is RDP going to win battles that SWAPO lost? There was no answer. Are this guys going to win any battle if they don't have any strategy? 3.OPPORTUNISTIC Looking at the coordinator's some where cornered and admitted that they were in hoping to be given Money by HH as it is said he has given money to some business people. That is Uulandwambongo (bought with money). It is the same strategy used by Colonialist Backed Parties to recruit people, because of lack of ideology. NSHR members were introduced at their rally and a Pamphlet written in Oshiwambo by Phil yaNangolo was distributed on the sidelines. The pamphlet is about how Nujoma betrayed others during the liberation struggle. HH knows that what yaNangolo preaches is lies, it's based on speculations and there are no facts. If HH believes that what yaNangolo says is true, He should be in a better position to tell us the truth as He was closer to Nujoma. And yaNangolo sees Savimbi as a hero yet his writtings are being distributed at an RDP rally. RDP does not deserve to run Namibia because Savimbi stood on our way to Freedom by siding with the South Africans. I'm conviced that HH is aware that what yaNangolo writes is CRAP, but He is willing to use him for propaganda against Nujoma as it may somehow benefit RDP as an altenative to SWAPO. That's pure Opportunism and Hypocricy. 4. THEIR CO-ORDINATORS ARE ILL INFORMED One wonders what people RDP will deploy as leaders. The clue on propective Ministers, Councillors, etc is on Co-ordinators. Some says RDP is for Intellectuals however the look at the co-ordinators I have met, the opposite is true. They don't have facts. They spread rumours such as Nujoma own Omugulugombashe train and He is the third richest banker in China. I asked them to provide me with facts, NONE, was forth-coming. I tried to engage them on discussion such our Gini Coefficient, GDP per Capita, Budget Deficit but I was shocked to learn that, they don't know what these are. Yet they are coordinators of a party planning to rule Namibia in the 21st Century. If that was too much I tested their knowledge of their leaders. I brought up the Northland City story in which Kandy Nehova and Shapua Kaukungwa was involved together with that crook Tony Mbok. They pleaded ignorance of Tony Mbok's involvement where He later sold his shares to a certain magistrate, it was well reported in local media yet the RDP coordinator is not aware of it. I can conclude that, RDP is not suitable for running our country. Some says SWAPO needs competition, yes that is very true, but we don't need a competition that promotes tribalim. In any case SWAPO volunteered to carry out the 1st phase of our struggle-Political Independence when there was no Tax Payers Money involved. Is this competitor not just interested in laying their hands on our money and channel them to their businesses. We have seen this thing happen in Zambia. As a nation striving to be KNOWLEDGE BASED SOCIETY I expect objections to the points I have raised to be followed by FACTS and FACTS only. SPECULATIONS to me are a waist of time. MUCH LOVE ELAITI Re: Tribalist RDP VS the Nationalist SWAPO a People's Organisation cris Number Posts: 153 Last Post: 04.01.2009, 19:58 [ View User's Posts ] Sunday, 06. January 2008 at 12:23 Hi namibian comrade Only to let you know , that as far i know and i could read , you are 110 % right. All we know , that any revolution got problems, no one country in the world can say ( at this moment) that get or got it allright allways. Every single "rich"country ( mostly european countries), is at present with lot's of economical and social problems. Most of the "very rich"countries ( USA,etc), are in fact near bankrupt. Now see the achivments of SWAPO Govrnment. Think about all of them, one by one. See where Namibia was 12 yrs ago , and see where is now. See the economic grow of the country.... 12 yrs ago and now. Can the critics of SWAPO government say , that ......" yes ,but we want more". YES, they can Also SWAPO Party , Swapo Government can say that same " WE WANT MORE for Namibia and all namibian citizens". Now , when all developed countries are geting backword in all social and economic issues , let me say that NAMIBIA and SWAPO Gover- nment is geting forword is same issues. Let the critics talk ( in democracy all can talk , sometimes alone in fact), let majority of namibian citizens prove in the VOTE that SWAPO PARTY is the one solution for a credible development in NAMIBIA (as my friend SPY ) VIVA SWAPO - VIVA NAMIBIA CRIS Re: Tribalist RDP VS the Nationalist SWAPO a People's Organisation tell it like that Number Posts: 119 Last Post: 15.06.2008, 10:10 [ View User's Posts ] Sunday, 06. January 2008 at 13:57 Dear Elaiti Welcome back. I have read your posting and i have few words to say or comment. Todays Policy is Reality Lets look at new iniatiatives in favour of UNFINISHED Proposals . At anytime swapo had forces pushing against but the once in 2007,2008 untill next year presindential Elections are stronger and this year is the final year to campain. My Brother I have few words to say, gone are the days of cheap politics and tribal pointnig politics. The Reality is THE Attention of the Nation, thats a realistic assesment. are you aware that the public is frustrated and restless, which could sink in the next election ? Swapo have a big home work to do in the next 12 months untill election next year, do you think it is enough to convince the once you say their are ill informed and how many people are the ill informed are recruting per day? lets be real. Don,t forget the real issues 1. still looming is the Ex Combatant issue 2. 95% unemploy youth. 3. 80% unemploy namibians 4. 80% poor Namibians 5. the Education crisis 6. health crisis 7. the swapo defectors to RDP how many untill next year? and many other problems still to solved. Me and you can argue and give facts but the biggest unknown of course is what"s going to happen politically in 2009 and me and you can,t control that it is a tricky Situation 95% percent are suffering in Namibia which is true so the only thing maybe Swapo have to do miracles to convince the unhappy ones. if swapo can do that in Twelve month than i will be happy and be cionvinced. Love and peace [Post edited by: tell it like that on 06/1/08 2:13 PM] Re: Tribalist RDP VS the Nationalist SWAPO a People's Organisation cris Number Posts: 153 Last Post: 04.01.2009, 19:58 [ View User's Posts ] Sunday, 06. January 2008 at 14:45 Here are very good points, and the ones that confirm ( to me at least) that Swapo is in good way. The real problem in NAMIBIA is the unemployment, or if you want, the most important economic and social problem or our days, in Namibia , but not only. On my best knowledge ( from big friends inside the SWAPO party and machine), this is the big issue for SWAPO. There is only 2 ways, and only two ways: 1. from the development of the private economy and investment ( neo liberal solution) 2. from the total control of the economy by the state machine ( state economy- or old fashion russian economy) No good came with a " third way" , because don'e exist (yet). The choice is for the namibians , but let us be clear, both solutions only can be developed by the same political party - SWAPO. For any of the solutions , will re required estability and credibility. NOW and in the NEXT FEW YEARS , at international level ( in a gobal economy) evey one know SWAPO Government , odn only that. Namibia , got a problem. LACK of WATER ressources. So , some kind of business invest- ments are OUT OF ORDER. Let me say , that i came from the "state economy" position , BUT I KNOW , that at this stage of the global world economy, is near impossible to survive ( in a global environment). Let's go now consider the big dilema . SWAPO is not a LIBERAL party , but a SOCIAL DEMOCRAT political Party. HowHow can can a Social Democrat put in practice a neo liberal economy???? How can a neo liberal economy provide a social policies platform. If you can resolve this dilema , the world will beb very gratefull. My idea. Here is the time, and now is the time , for crak down in all burocratic policies , open the country and the society to external investment , give more possibilities for outside investment less burocracy. Open and freedom economy, but ........make sure that the business people and projects give back to the employees the social bit , that the state can't provide yet. Give more facilities ( less state intervention) to the Workers Cooperatives. The Namibia Workers Unions must be ready for a big change - to set up a Co-OPERATIBE BANK , and be part of the society management . More jobs and more jobs , IS POSSIBLE. But only with SWAPO as Government. Economic Development is possible, but only with SWAPO. End of the day , Swapo and the Namibia Workers Unions, must now be the gear change for a SOCIAL LIBERAL ECONOMY. I'm sure that they can. CRIS Re: Tribalist RDP VS the Nationalist SWAPO a People's Organisation Goddy Number Posts: 96 Last Post: 04.12.2008, 14:23 [ View User's Posts ] Sunday, 06. January 2008 at 16:48 The only problem is that, very few Namibians understood the tactics choosen by RDP leadership. If RDP suppoters won't be too harsh and too rude then things will be ok. Failling to behave, they will receive what they never think of when they self-recruited to be revolutionalists. On the other hand, it sounds very interesting that every Namibian is thinking of how to make Namibia a green pasture for all its citzens. We also have to pay respect to some other prominent true Namibians like Hon. Katutire kaura, Hon. Justus Garoeb, Hon. Henk Mudge, Hon. Chief Kuaima Riruako, Hon. Kosie Pretorius, Hon. Ben Ulenga and many others for their efforts to bring changes in Namibia. Many of those mentioned above still stand firm for the same struggle which RDP just joined recently. Having for so many years, these guys failed to come together and fight the struggle with one front is an evidence that one might look at this struggle as "a struggle for self-enrichment". Politics is one of the dirty game on the earth. Seeing it now (Politic) very active in Namibia, it reminding me that Namibia is just about to be very dirty than it use to be within short period of time. It is very sad that in the meantime, some new political parties busy fooling those doesn't know how to write and read especially at northern regions. Namibian politicians need to receive lectures from UNAM or where ever so that they start differenciating between talking and acting, between promising and performing. [Post edited by: Goddy on 06/1/08 10:29 PM] [Post edited by: Goddy on 06/1/08 10:31 PM] Re: Tribalist RDP VS the Nationalist SWAPO a People's Organisation EPANGELO Number Posts: 328 Last Post: 02.01.2009, 13:34 [ View User's Posts ] Monday, 07. January 2008 at 01:03 Firstly welcome back guys and happy leap year. Good point there Goddy Elait your imagination is your limitation and your speculation is your casualty. More still to come Re: Tribalist RDP VS the Nationalist SWAPO a People's Organisation mandume Number Posts: 225 Last Post: 15.12.2008, 16:38 [ View User's Posts ] Monday, 07. January 2008 at 10:25 I wish you all, best of the year 2008 and well come back comrades. I hope you had a beautiful festive season like I did. Let our business continuo peacefully………………… Elaiti, very interesting points you have there on the northern political situation specifically for SWAPO VS RDP. But am just disturbed by some of your comments my brother but anyways that is how politics works and I learned the accept it. Because at the end its democracy and that is exactly the way it works. FINE! The question I have and one thing that keeps me wonder is the way ppl try to always compare the newly formed RDP with SWAPO, I mean why compare the two? Swapo is the organization of more then 40yrs old, RDP was just started few moths ago. This means RDP is a young party and still has to proof itself yet given the opportunity. Elaiti, it really quite disturbing you to keep saying RDP is a Kwanyama party, that is really very cheap politicking and the more you say it the further damage you are causing and the more you drive ppl further from SWAPO esp. Kwanyama’s who are still having hope in SWAPO. Words like this are the major cause of division and confusion amongst our ppl and it ppl that thinks and talk like you that are causing this without even noticing it. Elaiti, you are saying co-ordinators of RDP are ill informed, just exactly how? Swapo has the worse regional leadership ever not even to mention some of them who are illiterate and have no clue of the words like democracy and lack basic understandings of the Namibian constitution. Exactly how on earth a governor barn opposition party rallies in the region? Is this a form of Autocracy? Elaity, for ppl to ware t-shirts of Mandume ya Ndemufaya, this is their right, wish, will or what so ever you can call it. People printed this t-shirts with their own money and can ware it where ever they see it necessary been it at RDP or SWAPO meetings. Did you also check the t-shirt printings at other rallies? Or whre there t-shirts with mandume printings distributed for free at RDP rally? Elaiti, about the pamphlet distributed at Helao Nafidi how did you know its origin and just how can you verified what you mentioned. As far as I know RDP have rejected its origin and condemned it. Just like the ghost lists that were published aimed to cause confusion and further division amongst our ppl. Please stop preaching lies for the sake of truth, and the nation! Elaiti, about the co-ordinator you spoke to, if he does not know what RDP stands then that was his fault for him not to ask the ppl who made him the coordinator. But I think he is better then the counselors who spent their work time at their houses “doing nothing” while receiving Tax payer’s money and letting their communities to suffer. No water, electricity and not even to mention drought relief food. I have so many examples of these ones. Re: Tribalist RDP VS the Nationalist SWAPO a People's Organisation Elaeti.nam Number Posts: 272 Last Post: 05.01.2009, 15:32 [ View User's Posts ] Monday, 07. January 2008 at 11:40 Tell it like that Thank you for showing interest in this topic. First let me clarify the context on which I raised my points. As I said, all those years we have been giving the mandate to SWAPO to rule because we saw it as a best of the existing parties. Given that there is a new party on the block RDP, we need to evaluate it and see if it is suitable for lead our country. I did my first hand evaluation of RDP and came up with the points I have raised that it is. 1. Tribalist 2. Lacks policies to solve the people's problem 3. Opportunistic 4. Their co-ordinator's are ill informed I am not here to question RDP's ability to recruit people, my Point is: Are they a better altenative to SWAPO? I think that is what we should be discussing here. As I have said before we must at all times try to use FACTS. I thought you agree with me on that one. But dissapointingly you chose to suck some numbers from your thumbs and use them to support your points. Where did you get your Statistics that we have 95% unemploy youth, 80% unemploy namibians, 80% poor Namibians and that 95% Namibians are suffering? TELL IT LIKE THAT I challenge you to tell us how you came up those numbers. Otherwise I will not be interested in reading your posts again. Official Statistics are that we have 36% - 40% unemployment rate (That is 64% - 60% employment rate), not a good figure ofcoarse. Mandume Thank you for your reply. Your points clearly shows that you prefer RDP other than SWAPO or any other party. Good, that is your choice this is why we have democracy. But how logical is your choice? You don't want RDP to be compared to SWAPO, yet the responsibilities they are expected to carry out are the same. If RDP is INFERIOR to SWAPO because of their age. Why should we vote for them to rule our Country? I want you to answer me. is there no RDP Kwanyama link? Mandume I want to hear from you about that one. Mandume can you deny that there is a RDP yaNangolo link? As I have said before SWAPO might have lost some battles but they are atleast winning the War. Mandume tell us, How is RDP going to win the battles that SWAPO lost? And how are they going to continue winning the ones SWAPO is winning right now. Mandume please give us strategies, even one is enough for now. For example give us RDP's strategy on Education so that we can compare it to SWAPO's ETSIP. In this way we can encourage POLICY BASED debates. 2009 is not far, If RDP does not have any policy yet then they are NON STARTERS. Why did they start a Party if they don't have solutions? As a nation striving to be a KNOWLEDGE BASED SOCIETY we must at all times try to use FACTS in our debates. MUCH LOVE ELAITI Re: Tribalist RDP VS the Nationalist SWAPO a People's Organisation mandume Number Posts: 225 Last Post: 15.12.2008, 16:38 [ View User's Posts ] Monday, 07. January 2008 at 12:15 Elaiti, axccectly what policies do you want to know Namibia as a nation we have policies to govern our nation and we have what we call National projects. Allocated along these projects are strategies and budgets allocations to realize those projects. They are no SWAPO projects nor do they get Funding from swapo for their implementations “they are funded with tax payer’s money” government money. Project’s strategies like the education ETSIP is not a SWAPO thing it in a national, government thing and these is where you are getting it all mixed up. It does not mean if RDP, COD or DTA win the election we should change our construction NO ways bro. we will work on things that are already there, those that failed to materialize and those that will be added. Yes of course you are right about RDP to have manifesto, sure the party have a manifesto but I am not in the position of providing you with one yet. But if you really like one I can give you details of whre you can get it. About the like of Ya Nangolo to RDP, that I do not know may be you should brief us on that one. But according to my personal analyses just like for any other political party the right’s origination (NSHR) monitors its RDP activities, just like he does it for SWAPO. Whether it’s for good or bad reasons I DO NOT KNOW. But if you are saying he is involved in it, I am not aware as I never heard of him occupying any position or leadership role there. Did You? The only Kwanyama link I know for rdp is that there are Kwanyama ppl there, just like in SWAPO. I never heard of like RDP heard office(HQ) in Oukwanyama or of it been originated there pls. tell us more on this one too…. I say it again my brother, please refrain from CHEAP POLITICKING, it is very dirtier then politic itself. Re: Tribalist RDP VS the Nationalist SWAPO a People's Organisation Goddy Number Posts: 96 Last Post: 04.12.2008, 14:23 [ View User's Posts ] Monday, 07. January 2008 at 12:22 Thanx for getting me well comrade Epangelo. I also well-comed you back with fresh mind and energy in 2008. Only that, we cannot reach everyone through this channel but my ideas was to make everyone atleast be aware that some fresh-politicians are turning our country into dangerous angle. Re: Tribalist RDP VS the Nationalist SWAPO a People's Organisation tell it like that Number Posts: 119 Last Post: 15.06.2008, 10:10 [ View User's Posts ] Monday, 07. January 2008 at 12:37 Dear Elaiti you are welcome to do so for your own info i will never again join your discussions if that is the attitude you are coming up with of theatening people , so i know you created this discussion and thank you for showing your controling Attitude i don,t think i will want to continue cause maybe you and me don,t understand each other i will leave you to give your facts as you wish. Thank you love and peace Re: Tribalist RDP VS the Nationalist SWAPO a People's Organisation Ingahare Number Posts: 57 Last Post: 01.07.2008, 16:06 [ View User's Posts ] Monday, 07. January 2008 at 12:52 Brothers and sisters first and foremost I would like to welcome you back to the peoples parliament. Politics politics politics, in science poly means many so to me politics would mean many tricks. In my own opinion every political party in Namibia is drawn on tribal lines, full stop. As the saying goes it takes another to know another or it takes a thief to catch a thief or a big fish eats a small fish. Swapo is accusing RDP of being tribalist, meaning SWAPO is it self a tribalist. UDF-is for Damaras, Nudo-is for Hereros, RP-is for the white minority, MAG-also for the white minority, COD-just showed its true colours thats why Shixhuemeni broke off to form his, NPP-for kavangos, and last but not least the banned, UDP-for Caprivians. Why then cant Hidipo Hamutenya form his own RDP for Kwanyamas, some of us dont understand what is the difference between kwanyamas, ndongas, nganjeras,etc. Are the not all from one tribe owambo? Look at the Swapo leadership before: Sam Nujoma -President, H. Pohamba- V. President, Ngarikutuke Tjiriange-Secretary general, and who was the deputy also from one tribe. And now Pres.-Pohamba, V.Pres.-Hage Geingob(let Diescho talk), secr.- ,dep. secr., are there not all from one tribe? Or is 75% not an imbalance considering the fact that this tribe makes only 50% of the Namibian population. Why cant we just stop this tribal politics. Let SWAPO start saying we did this e.g. railway line to the north, we will do this if you vote for us in the next election. Mr Ulenga applause to you I personal liked your speak as reported today in the kavango, thats the way we are support to talk.People in rural areas if the need help its more in agriculture. You people want RDP to expose their plans now so that you copy them or what? You have to be patient. Telling traditional leaders to refrain from politics, are these not the same people who help Nujoma to get his third term? Please lets for example tell the caprivian like we are going to tar the Linyanti road which leads to the only two parks in eastern caprivi, we will develop the farming, improve the infrastructures in the said parks thus creating jobs.then you have our votes. Lets have a prosperous 2008 Re: Tribalist RDP VS the Nationalist SWAPO a People's Organisation Elaeti.nam Number Posts: 272 Last Post: 05.01.2009, 15:32 [ View User's Posts ] Monday, 07. January 2008 at 13:37 Mandume These are Policies and Visions drawn up by the SWAPO government. ETSIP is based on VISION 2030. VISION 2030 is SWAPO's promise to the Namibian people. In fact it is Sam Nujoma's idea, a Visionaly Leader indeed. Why should we vote for RDP to implement SWAPO's ideas. Will it not be more efficient if SWAPO implements their idea because they know them better. About the Kwanyama link go back to the opening of this discussion under sub topic TRIBALISTS, there I have given reasons why I think RDP is tribalist. We cannot condone TRIBALISM in this country, it is DANGEROUS!!!! The fact is that RDP is spreading Tribalism in the north. Maybe you don't know about it but I am telling you now. If you love ONE NAMIBIA ONE NATION then you should not support RDP. Again on the yaNangolo connection, if you were at the RDP rally at Ondangwa, you should know that HH introduced NSHR officials there and a Pamphlet written by Phil yaNangolo to discredit Sam Nujoma and The Liberation Struggle was distributed there. Tell it like that Don't run away, tell us where you got those numbers from, We don't want our people to be misled by LIERS. Where did you get your Statistics that we have 95% unemploy youth, 80% unemploy namibians, 80% poor Namibians and that 95% Namibians are suffering? TELL IT LIKE THAT I challenge you to tell us how you came up those numbers. Official Statistics are that we have 36% - 40% unemployment rate (That is 64% - 60% employment rate). Why are you so desperate to see RDP win to such an extend that you are even Lieing to the Nation. Give us 5 reasons why you support RDP rather than SWAPO or any other party. Just five reasons are enough for me. As a Nation striving to be a KNOWLEDGE BASED SOCIETY we must at all times try to use FACTS in our debates. MUCH LOVE TO NAMIBIA ELAITI Re: Tribalist RDP VS the Nationalist SWAPO a People's Organisation G4u Number Posts: 118 Last Post: 15.12.2008, 11:37 [ View User's Posts ] Monday, 07. January 2008 at 14:43 Happy new year to all, I am back as strong as before. i wantend to refrain from contributiong for this month at least, but politics is very intrutive. I wonder if those who said did not belong to any political party are prepared to eat their sweets in heaven. So mandume! this one is for you. what did you just said? "Taht ETSIP , vision 2030 and others are projects are not SWAPO projects nor do they get Funding from swapo for their implementations “they are funded with tax payer’s money” government money. Project’s strategies like the education ETSIP is not a SWAPO thing it in a national, government thing and these is where you are getting it all mixed up." Do you want to tell the Namibia Nation that if rdp get elected to the power they are going to fund the projects tey want to carry on with the money from their party's coffer,but not from the tax payer money? What a cheap polictics aggressive Namibians are preaching. Now one wonder if there were no truth in some of the allegations levelled agains the leadership that they missuse or chops money they were entrusted while they were Swapo pretenders. i wonder if it not the tax payers money which they are using to pay business man whom they are reucriting especialy in the north where they promised to pay N$20 000 per person. And do not say is not true as i was approched by one looking for advices on what to do. the fact remains that most if not all national projects that are being implemented, are based on the SWAPO manifesto.it is obviouse they are have to be implemented with the tax payers money's because the tax payers voted SWAPO to execute and run them. for you information, is this i were not suppose to tell you, it is tax payers's money which divide the Kwanyamas. i think I should end here. Re: Tribalist RDP VS the Nationalist SWAPO a People's Organisation mandume Number Posts: 225 Last Post: 15.12.2008, 16:38 [ View User's Posts ] Monday, 07. January 2008 at 15:11 Elaiti, why don’t you get it my brother? tribal politicking will not take our country any where and the further you preach it there more realistic it becomes. All political parties of course have some sorts of tribal majority rule and this is true for SWAPO, COD, NUDO, DTA, RP and many others including RDP. But this does not mean that its only for those tribes. All democratic political parties welcome all Namibians to join it and go out anytime they feel like with no threats or intimidations. So Elaiti, I would like if we can look at different angles of political parties lather then TRIBAL and base our arguments there. That issue of Kwanyama for RDP is baseless and can cause hatred amongst Owambo’s Ethnic groups. We are proud to have a good relationship that has been there and would want to continuo having it. At this moment I believe SWAPO is causing more damage to the Namibian ppl then any other political parties. I mean why so many threats? Intimidations? Name calling? And underestimating our level of intelligence to judge things for ourselves. We know what we want, do they think they know us best? Oh, pls…./….but what they don’t realize is the more they continue doing it the further people are moving away…… If you do not condone tribalism like you are preaching then just distant yourself from it. If you don’t condone it, then why encouraging it? “If I love Namibian I should not support RDP” what statement is this? This is the type of statements that will bring chaos, for constitutional shake why can’t you just learn to tolerate others with different political thinking and until when? Till later………………………………………….. PEACE………….. Re: Tribalist RDP VS the Nationalist SWAPO a People's Organisation mandume Number Posts: 225 Last Post: 15.12.2008, 16:38 [ View User's Posts ] Monday, 07. January 2008 at 15:25 G4u, DO NOT QOUTE ME WRONG! if you did not understand my post pls read it again sure you will, if not you can ask for pardon i will explain it further. do youself a favour not to put words in my mouth pls! "about kanyamas and rdp" pls guys if that it the degree that you can only see, and the level of your understanding as far as politic is concerned then, am sorry i shall NOT cotribute further. as it is too low profile for me. i wanted intellectuals to dabate with.............. Re: Tribalist RDP VS the Nationalist SWAPO a People's Organisation Elaeti.nam Number Posts: 272 Last Post: 05.01.2009, 15:32 [ View User's Posts ] Monday, 07. January 2008 at 16:23 We hate Tribalism and we will not support a TRIBALIST Party It is dangerous for our LOVELY NAMIBIA, We need Parties that have the interest of all the Namibians at heart. I see you are in DENIAL now. Logical people won't join a TRIBALIST Party. What intellectual debates are you looking for? Bring them on. In any case, the Tribalism point is valid. If your party is perceived to be tribalist, use your intellectual clout to convice the electorate that it is not. Don't run away from debates. It is a sign of Waivering. Apart from Tribalism I have addressed other RDP's weaknesses that I have observed. I expect you to use Facts to counter them. But you haven't. It seems you are promoting a party that you yourself don,t know very well. I asked you to State RDP's policies so that we can compare them to SWAPOs, thus encouraging Policy Based Debate, NONE is coming forth from RDP supporters. So what Intellectual debates are you looking for? What are RDP's Principles it seems it has NONE. Otherwise state them. You jump into the RDP wagon thinking your problems will be solved, You will be taken for a ride. Let's look at the RDP top leadership again. Shapua Kaukungwa and Kandy Nehova where involved in the Northland City Project. A good Idea indeed, but they were only there for personal gain. When they were fired from the Board by their similar crookish Mbok. They chose to subbotage the Project. Apparantly Mr Kaukungwa ran to Kelly Nghixulifwa to withdraw the RCC support. (How RCC got involved is in itself a big question). If RCC got a tender to construct the project, why withdraw a business opportunity. Or was there no benefit to RCC? One wonders. Today the Nothland City that we all looked forward to is grounded. How many more project will they ground if given the leadership of the country? I had to bring this up because Shapua Kaukungwa and Kandy Nehova are top leaders in RDP. MUCH LOVE ELAITI Re: Tribalist RDP VS the Nationalist SWAPO a People's Organisation EPANGELO Number Posts: 328 Last Post: 02.01.2009, 13:34 [ View User's Posts ] Tuesday, 08. January 2008 at 02:17 Elait your imagination is your limitation and your speculation is your casualty: My dear comrade Elaiti its a pity and sympathy that u did n't get the above trap. The trap was put on alert in order to catch the enermy of the unity of the Namibian nation. Let me bring to your knowledge your very individual political personality: you yourself Elaiti, you are not an analytical and independent political thinker but a directed/ guided element. This is due to the fact that you are following what the top SWAPO leadership's initial attempt to dismantle RDP by labelling the party as only for Kanyamas. You fail to do your own analyisi on the matter, did you realise that SWAPO leadership logically withdraw such a statement and replaced it with let us avoid tribalism and regionalism? a call that we are all aiming for. Let me educate you my dear brother pls update your self on the above political sernario, furthermore like Mandume told you already you are destroying your own SWAPO party if you don't know and that was the loopholes that your top leadership was using but later find out that it takes a way ppl from the party, you are lagging behind my dear comrade, stop using such nonses. As far as we know kwanyamas seconded by Ndongas form the majorities of the oshivambo speaking Namibian, your further claim will jeopardize ur Swapo party if you don't know. For now you are the casualty People should not support a party based on ethnicity and regionalism but on individual analysis of the party and its leadership. You claim to be a kwanyama and in meantime you refere RDP only for Kwanyamas, did u know that you are dilluting his excellence president Pohamba of the SWAPO party? are u trying to say he does not have the potential to be the president does why fellow kwanyamas hate him? don't be an idiot of the century pls stop it once again. In 1999 Hon. Ben Ulenga who is a Ngadjela formed his COD party and at that time SWAPO party was under Dr. Sam Nuyoma who is a Ngadjela as well, was COD refered to as Ngadjela party? I would like to continue debating with you provided that you attack RDP in a civilised manner because that 's what politic is all about, if not and still emphasizing tribal topic it does not attract my companion. till next time. Re: Tribalist RDP VS the Nationalist SWAPO a People's Organisation Elaeti.nam Number Posts: 272 Last Post: 05.01.2009, 15:32 [ View User's Posts ] Tuesday, 08. January 2008 at 09:26 Epangelo RDP is well known for DENIALISM, even the formation of a party itself was denied. RDP's TRIBALISM is a ghost that will haunt you until your demise. Your personal attacks on me does not help matters. I am as well capable of dishing out insults but because it is against my principles, I will not resort to it. It defeats the purpose of why we are here. And it does not help in building a mature society. Your Argument that mentioning RDP's tribalism will drive people from SWAPO does not make sense and it does not hold water. Myself, other Kwanyamas and the rest of the Namibian people who are principled and value our PEACE and UNITY, will not join an Opportunistic and Tribalist Party. This was demonstrated by a 20 000 turn out at Helao Nafidi's SWAPO rally. My conclussion that RDP is a tribalist party is based on my own analysis. Testimony to that are reason I have given in the opening post of this discussion. Maybe you missed them, check them out again. 1.TRIBALIST RDP is a Kwanyama based organisation, as a Kwanyama myself I don't see any reason why there should be a party for Kwanyamas, I think it is a dangerous idea. What comfort me is that the majority of Kwanyamas are not interested in this tribal politics except for those only interested in themselves and the ones that got misled due to ignorance. Anyway what interest of the Kwanyamas does RDP has at heart. They are trying to use this great tribe for their own interests. I seriously don't get this guys, apparently Kwanyamas are being sidelined in SWAPO, but a SWAPO and the country's president is a Kwanyama. A pamphlets were distributed discouraging all Kwanyamas not to attend the SWAPO rally at Helao Nafidi, the pamphlet had a Kwanyama tone all over it. Why is it like that? Is this One Namibia One Nation? While SWAPO has worked hard to unite the nation that was divided by the coloniser,s Odentaal plan, RDP is busy Undoing it. At their rally some people in front chairs were seen wearing T-Shirts with Mandume ya Ndemufayo printed on it. What is a significance of this. Yes Mandume yaNdemufayo is our legend, but if one wants to celebrate our yestyear heroes why Mandume only. Remember the rally was in Ondonga tribal area, so why not put on Nehale LyaMpingana? and when they do a rally in Gibeon they put on Hendrick Witbooi? A cousin of mine asked me which party I currently support. I told him that I'm not a member ( I don't have any membership card) of any party but I support SWAPO. He said He respects my stand, but He felt that it was odd, especially because he sees me as a well informed person so He expected me to be RDP. I asked why? He simply said because I'm a Kwanyama. He believes that RDP is a Kwanyama's party. That just tells you how people are misled into playing tribal politics for the benefit of few sellfish politicians. MUCH LOVE ELAITI Re: Tribalist RDP VS the Nationalist SWAPO a People's Organisation G4u Number Posts: 118 Last Post: 15.12.2008, 11:37 [ View User's Posts ] Tuesday, 08. January 2008 at 11:13 epangelo you do not have to educate anybody. u said Elaiti is just following what the leadership in SWAPO's attempts to dismattle rdp, but the same statemet equally applies to waht you are doing. Swapo is and have been a party of the Nambian ppl and even today you can see it in its structure. For rdp, it is different when u look at the structure, most of the leadership is kwanyamas. and i dare u to deny it as you are always on denials whith the truth. all divergers from SWAPO behaves in the same way and i do not have to blame you for being like your leaders. they claim namibia is even worser than the time of colonialization and they tell the namibian nation lies. the nation is always judge u on what you are telling them. how can you campain telling ppl SWAPO lost vision and you are the one who were shopping money while you were entrusted with the state funds. How can you go out pleashing you will tackle corruption while you shown your own colours before. Do yu want to tell me you will let a thief to guard you treasure? no way, the fact remains that that thief will not help looking at something preciouse without stealing it. you should not ask elaiti to ley to the namibian nation. COD was not formed on tribalism unlike rdp, therefore there was no way in any time in namibia when cod was reffered to a Ngandjera party. Facts are always harmfull and i realy feel for u that u do not want anybody to point the reality of a tribalistic party (rdp) in real term. It is a fact and u should learn to live with it as it will remain like that. SWAPO never have a 70% Ngandjeras only in its structure let a lone the majority Oshiwambo speaking. So Elaiti is right, and those are the facts which are pointed out everyday even in the newpapers, not only here. You must learn to at least avoid if not accept facts or else you don't need to pretend that you can teach anybody here. I am warning you that, SWAPO will always serve ppl, and the ppl of Namibia will always vote for the party of the Namibian nation (got that? the party of the Namibian Nation) not the party of the Kwanyamas or Hereros or .... I should end here for today peace and love Re: Tribalist RDP VS the Nationalist SWAPO a People's Organisation Miss Int'l Number Posts: 45 Last Post: 07.07.2008, 14:46 [ View User's Posts ] Wednesday, 09. January 2008 at 08:22 Please HELP!!! A friend and I are working on a project about exile born kids and kids who went to exile at an early age. I thought maybe SPYL/SWAPO would have info on exile kids etc. Do you know of a person and email/contact info you can forward to me? I.e. Elijah Ngurare's contact info as I don't have his current one. Also do you know who organized the first Exile Kids reunion that was held some years ago? Please email me any info at: namibianexilekids@gmail.com Look forward to hearing from any of you! Thanks! Re: Tribalist RDP VS the Nationalist SWAPO a People's Organisation G4u Number Posts: 118 Last Post: 15.12.2008, 11:37 [ View User's Posts ] Wednesday, 09. January 2008 at 11:51 Greenwell Matongo, I hope you do not have a bad intention of geting other ppls's email addresses. Is not easy to give email addressess especialy this time of the year when 2 months ago, many ppl were claiming taht they were cheated by rdp to be registered in their lists of suporters. This are facts and this ppl appears on national television. If you realy want to have this informations, you should get an official premission and inform the public who you are, your lealy name and surname, what you do, who you are collaborate with interms of association formation if there is any, the reasons why do you want to contact this kids. Help clear the air and the NAmibian Nation will respond to you. love and harmony in our land Re: Tribalist RDP VS the Nationalist SWAPO a People's Organisation Elaeti.nam Number Posts: 272 Last Post: 05.01.2009, 15:32 [ View User's Posts ] Thursday, 10. January 2008 at 13:03 Read the article below to see how well we are doing in meeting the UN Millenium Development Goals (MDG) under the SWAPO government. More info on MDG can be accessed on http://www.undp.un.na/undp-progr-mdgs-nam.htm Namibia On Track To Meet Global Poverty Goal * SEBASTIAN LEVINE THE Government and people of Namibia are making unprecedented inroads in the fight against poverty. The 2006 targets for poverty and inequality set out in National Development Plan II seem to have been achieved ahead of schedule and Namibia now finds itself among a small group of African countries that are on track to meet the global Millennium Development Goal target of cutting in half poverty by 2015. The news from the Central Bureau of Statistics this week was about as good as anyone could have wished for. But many Namibians are still trapped in poverty and the gap between rich and poor remains wide. The preliminary results from the 2003/04 Household Income and Expenditure Survey released by the National Planning Commission (NPC) on March 28 have not yet made big headlines in the media, nor has it triggered heated debates. It should, it must and hopefully it will. The results, however preliminary they may be (final results are due in July and only slight changes are expected), are remarkable and the survey itself is a milestone even if the released report could do more to bring out the key findings. Soon, it may very well be considered the single most important data-collection exercise carried out in Namibia since Independence. Over a full 12-month period the statistics office visited about 10 000 randomly selected and representative households throughout the country, collecting literally millions of pieces of data. At the core of the survey was the Daily Record Book where household members were asked to note down every day, in excruciating detail, all incomes and gifts received by the household and all expenses paid. Once all these numerous records are sorted, added and weighted, we get a unique picture of the poverty and material wellbeing of Namibians. Compare this to a similar survey conducted 10 years earlier, and we get a first real look into how post-Independence Namibia has managed in its fight against poverty. According to the new survey, the share of households living in 'poverty' - defined crudely by the NPC as those spending more than 60 per cent of their total income on food - is 28 per cent compared to 38 per cent recorded in the survey carried out a decade earlier. Over this period, the level of poverty, according to the national definition, has thus been cut by one quarter. If this rate of progress continues, Namibia is likely to halve poverty by 2015, the target set by the international community at the UN Millennium Summit in 2000. Only a small group of countries in sub-Saharan Africa are on track to meet this global goal and the continent as a whole is lagging behind. The survey shows that progress in reducing the plight of the poorest of the poor in Namibia has been even faster. The share of households designated as 'severely poor' - defined as those spending more than 80 per cent of their total income on food - appears to have more than halved from 9 per cent in 1993/94 to 4 per cent in 2003/04. Poverty remains a predominantly rural phenomenon: 42 per cent of all households in the rural areas are classified as poor, compared to just 7 per cent in the urban areas. The corresponding shares were 49 and 17 per cent respectively in the earlier survey. The Kavango Region still has the highest poverty rate in the country but poverty levels here have come down from 71 to 50 per cent. In the most populous of the northern regions, Ohangwena, poverty has been cut by almost half. The region with the lowest level of poverty is Khomas with less than 4 per cent. While the preliminary results released so far do not allow for a comprehensive analysis of causes and effects, it seems that poverty levels are being driven down by a combination of accelerated incomes for the poorest and falling inequality across the board. According to the survey, the main measure of inequality, the Gini coefficient, has fallen from 0.7 in 1993/94 to 0.6 in 2003/04, indicating a major improvement in the distribution of incomes in the country. Any change of a mere 0.1 could easily be dismissed as insignificant but this one should not. For instance, calculations conducted by the UNDP on the survey suggest that the income of the poorest 25 per cent of the population has increased three times as fast as the incomes of the richest 1 per cent. When incomes of the poor rise faster than incomes of the rich, the poor are catching up and the outcome of a country's economic and social policies can be said to be pro-poor. The Gini coefficient moves down a notch. Even if the gap between rich and poor may have narrowed overall, the level of income inequality in Namibia remains among the highest in the world. Only about a handful of countries globally have similar high levels of inequality. As an indication: the 1 per cent of Namibians that live in the country's richest households have the same income as the combined income of the poorest households that make up 60 per cent of the population. Income inequality also mirrors gender inequality. The results so far indicate that average incomes in households headed by women are 40 per cent lower than incomes of households that are headed by men. The Second National Development Plan (NDP II), which has been operational since 2001, has fighting poverty as the first of nine key development objectives. The Plan sets out, as its medium-term targets for 2006, to reduce: the proportion of poor households by 10 per cent; the proportion of severely poor households by 5 per cent; and the Gini coefficient to less than 0.6. The new results compared with the previous survey suggest that the Government has met these targets ahead of time and almost down to the decimal point! The new survey should be cause for celebration because the results are truly remarkable but, more importantly, the survey should be scrutinised and analysed by researchers and policy makers inside and outside of Government so that we get a better idea of how stable the findings are, how well they really reflect the situation in the country, what is the impact of the HIV-AIDS epidemic and what are the key factors that have contributed to reducing poverty and inequality. This will help us to design and implement policies that cannot just reduce, but eventually eradicate, poverty. Then we can really celebrate. * The author of this opinion piece, Sebastian Levine, is a Senior Economist with the United Nations Development Programmeme in Windhoek. Re: Tribalist RDP VS the Nationalist SWAPO a People's Organisation Elaeti.nam Number Posts: 272 Last Post: 05.01.2009, 15:32 [ View User's Posts ] Thursday, 10. January 2008 at 13:42 The Opinion piece above appeared in the Namibian newspaper on Friday, March 31, 2006. The Author expected the "Household Income and Expenditure Survey released by the National Planning Commission (NPC)" to cause celebration in Namibia. It was hardly noticed. Namibians in general likes to complain rather than appreciate. a look at daily SMSes in the Namibian newspaper is a good testimony. People complains that government did not pay loans to UNAM and Polytech, the complains are valid, but was the governement ever appreciated when it came up with that programme. A lot of people could not have afforded their studies at UNAM, Polytech, Vocational Training and Teacher's colleges of education if it wasn't for the government loan, But how many are paying back the loan? I'm informed that it is less than half. People want to be forced to pay, but when services are not being delivered they complain. I feel for the guys in the Government ,they do so many good things but nobody seems to notices but once they do a single blunder the media is all over them, it is frustrating. Although it's not good in terms of media freedom It is understandable why the government had to ban advertising in the Namibian newspaper, Atleast they have not ban it's publication completely. This newspaper gives a bad and wrong impression about Namibia. We have achieved so much but it is rarely reported in the most read daily newspaper. Thus causing a wrong perception among the ignorant citizens especially if it is their only source of reading. We must create a habit of reading goverment policies and progress reports. MUCH LOVE TO NAMIBIA ELAITI Re: Tribalist RDP VS the Nationalist SWAPO a People's Organisation mandume Number Posts: 225 Last Post: 15.12.2008, 16:38 [ View User's Posts ] Thursday, 10. January 2008 at 15:28 Elaiti, thanks for the opinion piece above it was quite interesting. But my question and as well as for so many is how reliable it is depicting the facts on the ground and with so many other factors up for consideration like the impart of HIV-AIDS, ever increasing unemployment rate, deteriorating health and education facilities, crime and many other social evils of our society. The information given was an abstract of a survey that was conducted 2004, which is 4years down the line and therefore outdated and that made it unreliable and disqualifiable. Ok, even though our overall economy did or continue to doing well, these does not grandee many suffering Namibians justifiable economic emancipation or alleviating them from extreme poverty. Like the survey has indicated the economy of our country is in the hands of few and benefits only thus 1 percent of the entire population. Few Namibian are living in that comfort zone and majority suffers. Imagine, the majority that spent 60 percent of their income on food, the means these ppl have Zero savings as they have to spent the rest in other basic needs like shelter, transport, education, hospitals etc. This survey could have been justifiable if government was proving it citizens with FREE education or Heath facility for example, like in other countries. To give few examples of Angola or SA. You have talked of Namibians like complaining. Yes we do and we will never stop to. Government is operating on ppl hard earned cash and it is our affairs as Namibians to complain when they blow up with our cash. If they where operating with funds from some where else then ppl will not complain. It is therefore their prerogative to complain when government does not deliver, yes ofcourse hands of applause and incentives should be given where and when it is due. I see a lot of smses in the Namibian newspaper congratulating President Pohamba and his administration where the job is well done. Don’t you see them? If government is interfering with local media affairs then that is blunders, they must just do what they where hired to do and media shall one day have no bad news to report. “all will be good news” don’t you want to see this? Elaiti, you do not have to feel for the guys in government when they get criticisms, after all we are paying them to deliver the good service. Not the other way around “or are you one of those ppl who backs civil servants to serve them on time” you should never do this it it their duty to perform if not we kick their butts. We do read government reports and policies, and what we have seemed so far is a bunch of excellent documents with excellent ideas and strategies years after years. But the practical situation is telling us something else. NDP1 failed to implement successfully, so as NDP2 and now we have NDP3 with doughting hopes. We are still working on strategies of NDP1 why? PEACE……………………………. 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