Tuesday, 22.05.2012 - Welcome to web.com.na! Online: 7 Members, 66 Guests You are not logged in! Home | Forums   Forum Your last visit was: Tuesday, 22.05.2012, 12:16 [ Search Forum ] Forum Home : Youth Corner : Introduction Displaying posts 1 - 25 of 83 total posts: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - >>> Post Views: 15771 0DELTA-X vs RELIGION Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Wednesday, 23. February 2011 at 17:28 Here is the new thread I promised. Now, 0Delta-X, you hate religion, correct? Yes, you gave us the reasons why you hate it. Your reason number one: Religion oppresses people's minds ... but HOW? Re: 0DELTA-X vs RELIGION Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Thursday, 24. February 2011 at 07:57 Hi 0Delta-X, You said you were Christian, correct? But we all know that to move from blief in God to unblief does not just happen. There are always reasons for that move; either individual reasons (like bad experience with a religious leader) or influence by peers. When you leave religion and then start asking the exact same questions asked by atheists for ages, then we know you left because of the influence by peers. In this situation you have no right to accuse religion of oppressing (influencing) minds because you yourself allowed your mind to be oppressed/influenced by others. While fleeing "oppression of minds" you ended up with an "oppressed mind" -- just in a different camp. Re: 0DELTA-X vs RELIGION 0Delta-X Number Posts: 160 Last Post: 08.03.2012, 17:36 [ View User's Posts ] Thursday, 24. February 2011 at 11:14 Lenga2030 Thank you once more for your keen to discuss this with me. 1. Well, I like your example about street seller too. Is up to the buyer to make choices. Then now I see Satan is just a catalyst to our wrong choices to help it worse to disobedience to God. In another word, evil, wrong doing and sin are wrong choices against God. 2. Though about Adam and Eve am still struggling, I went back to Bible too. Is like this: when I was a kid I use to believe that Adam and Eve sin by eating/bite an apple from apple tree as a PLANT which God told them not to. When I grew up, people translated to me that the apple eaten wasn’t really an apple-fruit as those in Fruit and Vegetable Store: but they made sex. In fact, The Bible used the word apple, to smooth and avoid the insulting/vulgar language. That is why I said there was no apple tree as a plant in Eden. Even if it was there was not an excuse for Adam and Eve to disobedience to God. Cos, at just the moment they ate that, then they realize that they are naked! And that make sense till today, we hide our private parts, and we make love in private, we shy and feel guilty as well. If the fruit was real an apple from plant but not sex as other translated to me……then I am SATISFIED. The rest of your answers am OK with them now Z-Series Beyond The Margins Re: 0DELTA-X vs RELIGION 0Delta-X Number Posts: 160 Last Post: 08.03.2012, 17:36 [ View User's Posts ] Thursday, 24. February 2011 at 11:25 HATING RELIGION PART 1. Lenga2030 said: "You said you were Christian, correct"? First of all you didn’t get me well on some issue on my previous posts Lenga2030. U asked me three questions: 1.Do you believe in God? 2.Do you believe the Bible, the Koran or any other Holy Script? 3. Can you define for me what "atheism" means? There I explained well, but I guess you didn’t read that coz you were interested on the answer right on the spot, YES/NO. Then there you missed to get where do I stand on religion. Otherwise now you cannot continue saying: “You said you were Christian?” So am asking you to go back on that post once more and reread it. The reason i answer you in long is, I was afraid to answer you directly YES I DO BELIEVE IN GOD. Then you might think am being contradicting my content for HATING RELIGIONS. I said I am still a Christian. I have been just a doubted Christian with those questions about religions. Though, I find it difficult to quit being Christian……outside religion is bitter cold for me and within it is terrible hot for me or simply NOT SATISFIED. Plus also hating religion doesn’t mean to hate God. Religion can collapse but that doesn’t mean God as well. 2. Yet asking those critical questions to religious people was like asking my mother who is my grandmother she use to tell me as her lovely mother, but my mother refuse to tell me who is she (grandmother) If I say to my mother; “then you don’t have mother then”….she will call me stupid kid. So, can I refuse my mother as well coz she can’t answer who is her mother? So she remain my mother, but a hypocrisy mother and a dictator mother who want to be my mother while she doesn’t tell enough about her mother’s characters. So too, like without knowing my grandmother I retain myself being Christian without knowing much about my God living in fear that if I ask Christians they will hail on me with unwelcome word simply I ask. They think only non Christians will ask those kinda questions. Is that what you were not thinking of me too Lenga2030? Not every bunch of Christians know what is in their Bible……but why they must label someone who exposed himself not knowing by asking that is a blasphemy, devil, atheist using him etc while they are also in the same position for not knowing what you are asking them about? Unless u ask them easy questions. And that is coward and selfishness. 3. So when I ask those questions about God, religious people, brand you as either you are devils person, they will avoid you. This means either in their Bible study they study what is easy for them and leave out what is hurting them or thorny. THIS IS WHAT I CALL MINDED OPPRESSION about them and I as well feel oppressed. No freedom to maneuver further. 4. Then I was wondered when Lenga2030 answer with confident me to ask, this means you allow me to cross the border I have been not allowed to cross, simply you give me freedom and no oppression of mind. At the same time I can say you are not oppressing people’s mind too and you are not religious oppressed otherwise couldn’t provide the answer. Say I DON’T KNOW is fine. Also I can’t blame a person if he doesn’t know the answer coz me I asked for not knowing. Then we are in the same position. Then if he call me blasphemy, devils that is hypocrisy. 5. My guess were Lenga2030 will get lost from this forum or avoid such thorny questions or will call me stupid, blasphemy or Satanism for asking though you called me an atheist but am just a Christian who doesn’t know everything about his religion and feel oppressed. And many Christians think that Christian can’t doubt about his/her religion and that is why they called such hypocrisy names to others. They think that lack of knowledge doesn’t exist inside Christianity. And if they do not doubt to know, then those who doubted will keep hammering them and leave them in shameful for not reasoning their religion. 6. What I also notice when I am asking such questions, Christians think that am doing it to provoke and laugh them if they do not provide the answer, but I just want to know so I can defend myself from those who will encounter me. If someone now ask me who created my God, with Lenga2030 help I will answer them GOD WAS NOT CREATED BUT AN ETERNAL and that answer bit the theory of BING BANG at once. Who tempted Angel Satan? “Because God gave him choice between good and evils so Satan choose by his own to do wrong doing”! Then I score and beat them like that…….at same time I’m strong Christian with strong defense. 7. Lenga, u asked me if it was peer pleasure for hating religions. I DON’T THINK SO, Cos I think those doubts I raised must be in everyone’s nature especially out of curiosity. People just don’t ask coz of fear and branded they are dishonest with God. Like me I am full of curiosity, I even think that maybe curiosity is a bad thing. Maybe is an evil thing. Cos is curiosity that led a person into deeper complicates. Vambos people said; “okatale Konawa oka dhipagitha mpundja” Means; curiosity will lead you into trouble. But how to cut it? And if cut, what will let new knowledge to flow in? 8. Another thing: Our world become common, GLOBALIZATION. I just don’t stay in Namibia, but travel around the world in different culture with different beliefs. And when you are meeting new things you are always puzzled by comparing with what you have in your hand or experience before. Plus now we live in culture of science especially in universities where we have to do presentation and engage in tight debates. All those things can shape someone’s life Zero-Delta-X Beyond The Margins [Post edited by: 0Delta-X on 24/2/11 11:37 AM] Re: 0DELTA-X vs RELIGION Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Thursday, 24. February 2011 at 17:38 Hi 0Delta-X, I have been busy the whole day, by I will respond to your last post asap. Re: 0DELTA-X vs RELIGION Hacker Number Posts: 6 Last Post: 26.02.2011, 15:56 [ View User's Posts ] Thursday, 24. February 2011 at 22:51 delta i m speechless i just dont know what to say to you at all...but the only thing that i do know for sure is that you are wrong and confused and you need help..i personally think that you are not an atheist but you an AGNOSTIC person.. just few replies to your post..you talked abt adams story somewere there if i m not mistaken..the only advice i should give you is that dont listen to what the people are saying or interpreting it but rather take it as the bible say..and the bible indicated that it was an APPLE so it is an apple..and i dont understand why GOD would forbid them from having sex i he told them to REPRODUCE,how were they going to reproduce without having sex???? by the way ii think you need to start to go to church pls..i think you need it the most and you would be in my prayer.. much love EINSTEIN Re: 0DELTA-X vs RELIGION 0Delta-X Number Posts: 160 Last Post: 08.03.2012, 17:36 [ View User's Posts ] Friday, 25. February 2011 at 10:21 Hacker Thank you too for your say. Yeah, now i guess that maybe the way Adam and Eve sin translated to me was wrong. But am sure many people confirmed it. Am asking from the web too if there is anyone got same translation. If it was realy an apple as u are saying then everything is OK. But if it wasn't an apple then the question of tree at the center of Garden remain mysteries. Maybe am confuse as u are saying, but i said it, CURIOSITY in me is much. Going to church.......mhhh, maybe maybe.....coz i don't think everyone goes to church is a Bible Guru! Yet, thorny question like that i do fear to ask it everyone, here i did ask coz Lenga said i must ask. Anyway Lenga shed much light now. @Lenga2030 Ok, just take your time Z-Series Beyond The Margins Re: 0DELTA-X vs RELIGION Black Revolutionary--(MMB) Number Posts: 1622 Last Post: 27.04.2012, 00:41 [ View User's Posts ] Friday, 25. February 2011 at 11:38 0Delta-X How are you doing bro? wapumba wafa onyama yombwa..lol Re: 0DELTA-X vs RELIGION 0Delta-X Number Posts: 160 Last Post: 08.03.2012, 17:36 [ View User's Posts ] Friday, 25. February 2011 at 12:09 MMB brother Am just around, is just a matter of load added on my desk. Mhhh since my predecessor 0Ghost resigned from politics, and now the sibling 0Delta-X is critizing Religions the most part people fear to do or questioning. Somewhere i find Politics and religions got some common fishy things. Though not God, I think God is just right in everything (coz Religions is not God) except these 2 (politics and religions) in the hand of human being, i must doubts. Despite i quit politics, excuse me: I saw your post about Dos Santos. Likewise i want to help in protest. Dictator in name of democray must leave before moved. What a nice example Tunisia, Egpty and Libya did? Leaders don't have power at all but people in the street, they must remember that day and night! Just to make sense for everone poping up on this post......this debate was extracted from the following link, better start there to get the story better. http://web.com.na/forums/youth/introduction/39491?ppage=3 Zero-Delta-X Beyond The Margins Re: 0DELTA-X vs RELIGION Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Friday, 25. February 2011 at 13:59 0Delta-X: “Lenga2030 Thank you once more for your keen to discuss this with me. 1. Well, I like your example about street seller too. Is up to the buyer to make choices. Then now I see Satan is just a catalyst to our wrong choices to help it worse to disobedience to God.” MY RESPONSE: Satan tempts us, deceives us by saying the truth is a lie and that the lie is the truth but … he is unable to force us to believe what he says. We believe it or reject it out of our own free will. God gives us grace to enable us to serve Him but does not force us to believe either. 0Delta-X: “In another word, evil, wrong doing and sin are wrong choices against God.” MY REPONSE: Evil (sin) is either failure to DO what God commanded us, or DOING what God prohibited. 0Delta-X: “2. Though about Adam and Eve am still struggling, I went back to Bible too. Is like this: when I was a kid I use to believe that Adam and Eve sin by eating/bite an apple from apple tree as a PLANT which God told them not to. When I grew up, people translated to me that the apple eaten wasn’t really an apple-fruit as those in Fruit and Vegetable Store: but they made sex.” MY RESPONSE: No, that is lie. When they sinned against God Adam and Eve were already pre-ordained to be fertile and multiply and the only way they were to do that is through conjugal act. 0Delta-X: “In fact, The Bible used the word apple, to smooth and avoid the insulting/vulgar language.” MY RESPONSE: That is simply not true! 0Delta-X: “That is why I said there was no apple tree as a plant in Eden.” MY RESPONSE: If that is what you believe, then you are getting your information from somewhere else … not from the Bible. 0Delta-X: “Even if it was there was not an excuse for Adam and Eve to disobedience to God. Cos, at just the moment they ate that, then they realize that they are naked! And that make sense till today, we hide our private parts, and we make love in private, we shy and feel guilty as well. If the fruit was real an apple from plant but not sex as other translated to me……then I am SATISFIED.” MY RESPONSE: The question you have to ask yourself is: how can an act commanded by God be sinful? God commanded Adam and Eve to be fertile and multiply, but when they do just that He punishes them? Does that make sense? I don’t think so! 0Delta-X: “The rest of your answers am OK with them now.” MY RESPONSE: That is wonderful. Re: 0DELTA-X vs RELIGION Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Friday, 25. February 2011 at 16:31 0Delta-X: “HATING RELIGION PART 1. Lenga2030 said: "You said you were Christian, correct"? First of all you didn’t get me well on some issue on my previous posts Lenga2030. U asked me three questions: 1.Do you believe in God? 2.Do you believe the Bible, the Koran or any other Holy Script? 3. Can you define for me what "atheism" means? There I explained well, but I guess you didn’t read that coz you were interested on the answer right on the spot, YES/NO. Then there you missed to get where do I stand on religion.” MY RESPONSE: Let me give you a point there. I may have missed some of what you said. When you said you hate religion and you don’t know who created God, then I was like “uh … another atheist!" Maybe I was wrong in imagining that no one could be anti-religion and be religious at the same time. The contradiction was too apparent for me. 0Delta-X: “Otherwise now you cannot continue saying: “You said you were Christian?” So am asking you to go back on that post once more and reread it. MY RESPONSE: I’ll do that right away … thank you. 0Delta-X: “The reason i answer you in long is, I was afraid to answer you directly YES I DO BELIEVE IN GOD. Then you might think am being contradicting my content for HATING RELIGIONS. I said I am still a Christian. I have been just a doubted Christian with those questions about religions. Though, I find it difficult to quit being Christian……outside religion is bitter cold for me and within it is terrible hot for me or simply NOT SATISFIED.” MY RESPONSE: If that is the case (i.e. you being a doubting believer) then all I can do is pray for you and encourage you to prayerfully continue searching for answers. 0Delta-X: “Plus also hating religion doesn’t mean to hate God. Religion can collapse but that doesn’t mean God as well.” MY RESPONSE: That is against Christian teaching, according to which, Christian religion would never collapse (cf. Matthew 16:18). Re: 0DELTA-X vs RELIGION Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Friday, 25. February 2011 at 16:34 0Delta-X: “2. Yet asking those critical questions to religious people was like asking my mother who is my grandmother she use to tell me as her lovely mother, but my mother refuse to tell me who is she (grandmother) If I say to my mother; “then you don’t have mother then”….she will call me stupid kid. So, can I refuse my mother as well coz she can’t answer who is her mother? So she remain my mother, but a hypocrisy mother and a dictator mother who want to be my mother while she doesn’t tell enough about her mother’s characters. So too, like without knowing my grandmother I retain myself being Christian without knowing much about my God living in fear that if I ask Christians they will hail on me with unwelcome word simply I ask.” MY RESPONSE: Asking questions is fundamental right. Any one intimidating you simply because you ask questions is wrong … let the Lord forgive him because he does not know what he is doing. Re: 0DELTA-X vs RELIGION Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Friday, 25. February 2011 at 16:44 0Delta-X: “They think only non Christians will ask those kinda questions. Is that what you were not thinking of me too Lenga2030?” MY RESPONSE: No, I did not think you are non-Christian because of the questions you asked. I thought you are an atheist BECAUSE you said hate religion. And my reasing is that an anti-religion cannot be religious. But (Surprise! ... Surprise! ...) I stand corrected … you are now saying you are not atheist and I have no reason to question what you claim about yourself. 0Delta-X: “Not every bunch of Christians know what is in their Bible……but why they must label someone who exposed himself not knowing by asking that is a blasphemy, devil, atheist using him etc while they are also in the same position for not knowing what you are asking them about?” MY RESPONSE: Yes, a lot of Christians do not know their Bible and that may be the reason they label honest questions as “blasphemy” or “devilish”. 0Delta-X: “Unless u ask them easy questions. And that is coward and selfishness.” MY RESPONSE: True. Any one who is only willing to address easy questions is a coward and is not worth being Jesus’ disciple. Re: 0DELTA-X vs RELIGION Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Friday, 25. February 2011 at 16:49 0Delta-X: “3. So when I ask those questions about God, religious people, brand you as either you are devils person, they will avoid you.” MY RESPONSE: That is unfortunate indeed! 0Delta-X: “This means either in their Bible study they study what is easy for them and leave out what is hurting them or thorny. THIS IS WHAT I CALL MINDED OPPRESSION about them and I as well feel oppressed. No freedom to maneuver further.” MY RESPONSE: And here is where you are 100 % wrong. Failure to answer questions is not oppression of the mind in any shape or form. When someone fails to answer your questions you are free to take them elsewhere. There is no need to feel oppressed at all. Re: 0DELTA-X vs RELIGION Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Friday, 25. February 2011 at 17:12 0Delta-X: “4. Then I was wondered when Lenga2030 answer with confident me to ask, this means you allow me to cross the border I have been not allowed to cross, simply you give me freedom and no oppression of mind.” MY RESPONSE: That is how things are supposed to be. 0Delta-X: “At the same time I can say you are not oppressing people’s mind too and you are not religious oppressed otherwise couldn’t provide the answer.” MY RESPONSE: I would suggest you consider the possibility that religion is, in fact, not oppressive as alleged by some people. Some religious people might be oppressive but they are not “the religion”; they simply happen to belong to a religion. 0Delta-X: “Say I DON’T KNOW is fine. Also I can’t blame a person if he doesn’t know the answer coz me I asked for not knowing. Then we are in the same position. Then if he call me blasphemy, devils that is hypocrisy.” MY RESPONSE: That is the correct attitude. No one person has answers to all questions. Being honest and telling someone “I have no answer to your question” is wonderful. 0Delta-X: “5. My guess were Lenga2030 will get lost from this forum or avoid such thorny questions or will call me stupid, blasphemy or Satanism for asking though you called me an atheist but am just a Christian who doesn’t know everything about his religion and feel oppressed.” MY RESPONSE: No ill will when I called you “atheist”. If you are not, fine. 0Delta-X: “And many Christians think that Christian can’t doubt about his/her religion and that is why they called such hypocrisy names to others.” MY RESPONSE: Like I said, whatever I said about you it is because you said you hate religion and it never crossed my mind that someone can be both anti-religion and religious at the same time. Sorry for that!!!!!! 0Delta-X: “They think that lack of knowledge doesn’t exist inside Christianity.” MY RESPONSE: Then “they” are wrong because lack of knowledge is to be found both inside and outside Christianity. 0Delta-X: “And if they do not doubt to know, then those who doubted will keep hammering them and leave them in shameful for not reasoning their religion. 6. What I also notice when I am asking such questions, Christians think that am doing it to provoke and laugh them if they do not provide the answer, but I just want to know so I can defend myself from those who will encounter me. If someone now ask me who created my God, with Lenga2030 help I will answer them GOD WAS NOT CREATED BUT AN ETERNAL and that answer bit the theory of BING BANG at once. Who tempted Angel Satan? “Because God gave him choice between good and evils so Satan choose by his own to do wrong doing”! Then I score and beat them like that…….at same time I’m strong Christian with strong defense.” MY RESPONSE: Wonderful! That shows that learning is really a life long process. Re: 0DELTA-X vs RELIGION Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Friday, 25. February 2011 at 17:19 0Delta-X: “7. Lenga, u asked me if it was peer pleasure for hating religions. I DON’T THINK SO, Cos I think those doubts I raised must be in everyone’s nature especially out of curiosity. People just don’t ask coz of fear and branded they are dishonest with God. Like me I am full of curiosity, I even think that maybe curiosity is a bad thing. Maybe is an evil thing. Cos is curiosity that led a person into deeper complicates. Vambos people said; “okatale Konawa oka dhipagitha mpundja” Means; curiosity will lead you into trouble.” MY RESPONSE: Declaring curiosity as taboo is one reason some nations remained behind while others were exploring new innovative ways of life. Curiosity is, in fact, a virtue. 0Delta-X: “But how to cut it? And if cut, what will let new knowledge to flow in? 8. Another thing: Our world become common, GLOBALIZATION. I just don’t stay in Namibia, but travel around the world in different culture with different beliefs. And when you are meeting new things you are always puzzled by comparing with what you have in your hand or experience before. Plus now we live in culture of science especially in universities where we have to do presentation and engage in tight debates. All those things can shape someone’s life.” MY RESPONSE: I totally agree with you on that one. Re: 0DELTA-X vs RELIGION Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Friday, 25. February 2011 at 18:59 Hi 0Delta-X, There are three main reasons why people disagree: 1. Both are wrong; or 2. One is wrong and the other is right; or 3. Both are right but are looking at the facts from different angles (or using different terminologies). If you are really a Christian then we are at number 3. That makes this thread (0Delata-X vs Religion) redundant. But you are still free to ask questions ... I am ready to provide answers (where necessary). Re: 0DELTA-X vs RELIGION 0Delta-X Number Posts: 160 Last Post: 08.03.2012, 17:36 [ View User's Posts ] Monday, 28. February 2011 at 12:31 Lenga2030 I do surrender now and swallowed your answers well. About the 3 scenarios u mentioned why people may disagree. In additional, maybe they may disagreeing depending on who are debating. Think of preventing losing self-esteem and pride, self talent displaying, feeling powerful to win debate, different political reasons, intelligence competence, loose of ethics (insults and sarcasm), loose of debate momentum or simply they are just being defensive etc. This is might the reason why people mostly only disagree with those often use to disagree and agreeing with those always agreeing with. On this case I am suspecting the dark spot is on my side, when I said I HATE RELIGIONS…..though back you suggested either DISAGREE….but that doesn’t SATISFY what I wanted to say too. So, I will leave it for now hopping I will get the answer as the discussion going on. This weekend I read more about SIN and words are sharp like two sided sword. And some questions I wanted to ask you were answered as well. Sorry for keeping on asking though: 1. UNFORGIVABLE SIN, (blaspheme against Holy Spirit) this is a one way ticket out of salvation right? [Mat. 12 31-32]. This is freezing bone-marrow! What is your say on this? 2. Why the sin is so easy and sweet to commit? How to prevent it happen? 3. Why people draw Satan appearing to be an ugly creature, I thought Satan portrays himself to us as the most Mr Universe ever to capture us easily…nosendi 4. Is Lenga2030 studied theology before? How do you know so much about Alpha and Omega? ANYONE CAN VOLUNTEER TO ANSWER ON THE ABOVE 1st 3 QUESTIONS! 0Delta-X Re: 0DELTA-X vs RELIGION 0Delta-X Number Posts: 160 Last Post: 08.03.2012, 17:36 [ View User's Posts ] Monday, 28. February 2011 at 12:43 [By Lenga2030] “MY RESPONSE: No, I did not think you are non-Christian because of the questions you asked. I thought you are an atheist BECAUSE you said hate religion. And my reasing is that an anti-religion cannot be religious. But (Surprise! ... Surprise! ...) I stand corrected … you are now saying you are not atheist and I have no reason to question what you claim about yourself”. In your response above I raised suspicions: Lenga2030 is a Christian but not Muslim, Buddha etc which are religions too. Not even belong to other 4000 division of Christianity? How do we call that? I thought one can be either partially anti-religion to make a significant choice for right religion. Is so useless one to claim MY RELIGION IS THE RIGHT ONE without comparisons! Comparing to whose religion AIN’T RIGHT? True or Not? If Matthew 16:18 saying religion will never collapse, then why you Lenga2030 disagree with Zion Community on previous thread? Thoughts not all religions we have today are right…..right? Why so much accusation among religious people today? Is that not religion decays? Otherwise u agreed with Zion Community who is not even a Muslim? That was the reason on previous thread I said: Is not necessary to mention Stalin, Plot, and Mao coz they just did the best of communism as known for oppression. We must start with our own despite we are in democratic societies! Democratic societies ain’t enough to be a heaven to me yet. Z-Series Re: 0DELTA-X vs RELIGION 0Delta-X Number Posts: 160 Last Post: 08.03.2012, 17:36 [ View User's Posts ] Monday, 28. February 2011 at 13:11 RELATIVISM AND TOLERANCE Let me quote myself from previous thread, coz am not yet satisfied on this. 1. Do you believe in God? Explanation 1st: Well, the word God, at universal level is a broad noun, which can be either ornament, animal, sun, stellar bodies etc. So, which one you are referring to? Example: Christianity may consider whose believe in Cow as not God, But whom believing in cow may consider Christianity God as not true God as well. So my clue is here: True God depend on society/culture you grew in, depend on what book of religion you read most than the others. Then u end up comprehending it more than the rest. What i mean is: your birth place, parents religions, domination of culture may shape your religion beliefs. Example. Kids being born in Saudi Arabia i guess them to be in Islam religions, coz the environment shape them. Keep in mind: that is a true religion of that region. Countries like Namibia inherited that since whom brought the religion are Christians but not Buddas or Islam otherwise they got no way out. One thing also, My strong Christian is whom in Saudi Arabia, or China, ready to face Chinese authority daily. Also strong Islam is whom dwelling in Namibia. So, my questions/doubt about religions rise looking at the map how they dispersed What does your religion says about a kid raised in China in society where religions are banned? Heheee, maybe u are saying he/she was unlucky to mis true God of Namibia for being scandalized by his birthplace? AN “INSERT” OF POEM ABOUT RELATIVISM AND TOLERANCE "Blind Men and the Elephant – A Picture of Relativism and Tolerance The Blind Men and the Elephant is a famous Indian fable that tells the story of six blind sojourners that come across different parts of an elephant in their life journeys. In turn, each blind man creates his own version of reality from that limited experience and perspective. In philosophy departments throughout the world, the Blind Men and the Elephant has become the poster child for moral relativism and religious tolerance. Blind Men and the Elephant – A Poem by John Godfrey Saxe Here is John Godfrey Saxe’s (1816-1887) version of Blind Men and the Elephant: It was six men of Indostan, To learning much inclined, Who went to see the Elephant (Though all of them were blind), That each by observation Might satisfy his mind. The First approach'd the Elephant, And happening to fall Against his broad and sturdy side, At once began to bawl: "God bless me! but the Elephant Is very like a wall!" The Second, feeling of the tusk, Cried, -"Ho! what have we here So very round and smooth and sharp? To me 'tis mighty clear, This wonder of an Elephant Is very like a spear!" The Third approach'd the animal, And happening to take The squirming trunk within his hands, Thus boldly up and spake: "I see," -quoth he- "the Elephant Is very like a snake!" The Fourth reached out an eager hand, And felt about the knee: "What most this wondrous beast is like Is mighty plain," -quoth he,- "'Tis clear enough the Elephant Is very like a tree!" The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear, Said- "E'en the blindest man Can tell what this resembles most; Deny the fact who can, This marvel of an Elephant Is very like a fan!" The Sixth no sooner had begun About the beast to grope, Then, seizing on the swinging tail That fell within his scope, "I see," -quoth he,- "the Elephant Is very like a rope!" And so these men of Indostan Disputed loud and long, Each in his own opinion Exceeding stiff and strong, Though each was partly in the right, And all were in the wrong! MORAL, So, oft in theologic wars The disputants, I ween, Rail on in utter ignorance Of what each other mean; And prate about an Elephant Not one of them has seen! Blind Men and the Elephant – Philosophical Parable The Blind Men and the Elephant is an ancient parable used today as a warning for people that promote absolute truth or exclusive religious claims. The simple reason is that our sensory perceptions and life experiences can lead to limited access and overreaching misinterpretations. How can a person with a limited touch of truth turn that into the one and only version of all reality? Blind Men and the Elephant – Theological Truth When it comes to the moral of the Blind Men and the Elephant, it seems that today’s philosophers end their agenda too quickly. Doesn’t the picture of the blind men and the elephant also point to something bigger -- The elephant? Indeed, each blind man has a limited perspective on the objective truth, but that doesn’t mean objective truth isn’t there. In fact, truth isn’t relative at all… It’s there to discover in all its totality. In theology, just because we have limited access to Truth, that doesn’t mean any and all versions of Truth are equally valid. Actually, if we know the Whole Elephant is out there, shouldn’t this drive us to open our eyes wider and seek every opportunity to experience more of Him?" 0Delta-X The Computation of Matrix Re: 0DELTA-X vs RELIGION 0Delta-X Number Posts: 160 Last Post: 08.03.2012, 17:36 [ View User's Posts ] Monday, 28. February 2011 at 13:19 TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN REMINDER: This discussion (0DELTA-X vs RELIGION) extracted from the thread of the link give down. Anyone wish to follow it properly better start from there. THANK YOU! http://web.com.na/forums/youth/introduction/39491?ppage=3 Z-Series Beyond The Margins Re: 0DELTA-X vs RELIGION Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Tuesday, 01. March 2011 at 09:04 0Delta-X: “Lenga2030 I do surrender now and swallowed your answers well. About the 3 scenarios u mentioned why people may disagree. In additional, maybe they may disagreeing depending on who are debating. Think of preventing losing self-esteem and pride, self talent displaying, feeling powerful to win debate, different political reasons, intelligence competence, loose of ethics (insults and sarcasm), loose of debate momentum or simply they are just being defensive etc.” MY RESPONSE: Okay … then there are four reasons why people disagree … thank you for the addition. 0Delta-X: “This is might the reason why people mostly only disagree with those often use to disagree and agreeing with those always agreeing with. On this case I am suspecting the dark spot is on my side, when I said I HATE RELIGIONS…..though back you suggested either DISAGREE….but that doesn’t SATISFY what I wanted to say too. So, I will leave it for now hopping I will get the answer as the discussion going on.” MY RESPONSE: That is okay! 0Delta-X: “This weekend I read more about SIN and words are sharp like two sided sword. And some questions I wanted to ask you were answered as well. Sorry for keeping on asking though:” MY RESPONSE: You do not need to apologize to any one for asking questions. In fact, asking honest questions is a honorable thing to do. 0Delta-X: “1. UNFORGIVABLE SIN, (blaspheme against Holy Spirit) this is a one way ticket out of salvation right? [Mat. 12 31-32].” MY RESPONSE: Salvation is a process, starting with conversion, continuing with being a good Christian till one's last day on earth. So, anyone who out of his own free will blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, has freely chosen damnation. And remember, sin requires full knowledge and complete consent: knowledge of the sinful nature of the act and a consent so deliberate it is actually a personal choice. 0Delta-X: “This is freezing bone-marrow! What is your say on this?” MY RESPONSE: I always feel pity when humans make wrong decisions, including when they commit physical or spiritual suicide. That remains their choice nevertheless! 0Delta-X: “2. Why the sin is so easy and sweet to commit?” MY RESPONSE: Not really. Is it, for instance, "easy and sweet" to murder, to rape and to steal? I don’t think so! 0Delta-X: “How to prevent it happen?” MY RESPONSE: Obey the Commandments! 0Delta-X: “3. Why people draw Satan appearing to be an ugly creature, I thought Satan portrays himself to us as the most Mr Universe ever to capture us easily…nosendi” MY RESPONSE: Satan is a spiritual being; he has no physical body. So, any drawings are just attempts to visualize what was meant for the ear. It would be a contradiction to visualize a beautiful Satan, while at the same time saying he is evil. Re: 0DELTA-X vs RELIGION Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Tuesday, 01. March 2011 at 09:28 0Delta-X: “4. Is Lenga2030 studied theology before? How do you know so much about Alpha and Omega?” MY RESPONSE: My apology but I will not respond to this one. It has absolutely nothing to do with what we are discussing. This discussion is not about “who is more qualified or less qualified” to talk about this topic. 0Delta-X: “[By Lenga2030] “MY RESPONSE: No, I did not think you are non-Christian because of the questions you asked. I thought you are an atheist BECAUSE you said hate religion. And my reasing is that an anti-religion cannot be religious. But (Surprise! ... Surprise! ...) I stand corrected … you are now saying you are not atheist and I have no reason to question what you claim about yourself”. In your response above I raised suspicions: Lenga2030 is a Christian but not Muslim, Buddha etc which are religions too." MY RESPONSE: Yes, they are all religions. Disagreeing with those does not mean “hating religion”. Hating religion means hating ALL religions. 0Delta-X: “Not even belong to other 4000 division of Christianity? How do we call that?” MY RESPONSE: We call that “disagreements” -- not hatred! 0Delta-X: “I thought one can be either partially anti-religion to make a significant choice for right religion.” MY RESPONSE: Wrong! You can not be anti-religion and be religious at the same time. 0Delta-X: “Is so useless one to claim MY RELIGION IS THE RIGHT ONE without comparisons! Comparing to whose religion AIN’T RIGHT? True or Not?” MY RESPONSE: Comparisons are necessary, but that does not have to include hatred. Hatred creates prejudice and prejudice only serves to blind you further, making it impossible to see any good religions offers. 0Delta-X: “If Matthew 16:18 saying religion will never collapse, then why you Lenga2030 disagree with Zion Community on previous thread?” MY RESPONSE: Is Zion Community the Church Jesus promised in Matthew 16:18? I don’t think so. But in case you think so, then you have to demonstrate that the Zion Community existed in the first, the second … the fourth … the eleventh …. the sixteenth, the eighteenth centuries and so forth … 0Delta-X: “Thoughts not all religions we have today are right…..right? Why so much accusation among religious people today?” MY RESPONSE: That is because -- like I said earlier -- they are 1) all wrong, or 2) some are wrong or 3) all are right but look at the truth from different angles. ... I agree with #2, and you? Re: 0DELTA-X vs RELIGION Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Tuesday, 01. March 2011 at 09:39 0Delta-X: “Is that not religion decays?” MY RESPONSE: Yes, religion decays but being Christian entails believing Jesus when He says His religion will never decay. So, other religions may and can decay but not Jesus’ religion. Jesus made the promise and the 2 000 years history of Christianity has proven Him right. 0Delta-X: “Otherwise u agreed with Zion Community who is not even a Muslim?” MY RESPONSE: But they are not Christian either. Remember: being Christian entails more than just claiming to be Christian. 0Delta-X: “That was the reason on previous thread I said: Is not necessary to mention Stalin, Plot, and Mao coz they just did the best of communism as known for oppression.” MY RESPONSE: Yes, they just followed, to the letter, the Communist principles … and those principles include hating religion to a point of trying to wipe it out. And you know what? Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao etc are all gone and litterally forgotten, but the religion they tried to wipe out is still alive and kicking. 0Delta-X: “We must start with our own despite we are in democratic societies! Democratic societies ain’t enough to be a heaven to me yet.” MY RESPONSE: "Our own" what? But is there really a need to re-invent the wheel instead of just improving that what already exists? Re: 0DELTA-X vs RELIGION Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Tuesday, 01. March 2011 at 11:10 Hi 0Delta-X, Having taken note of your interesting post on “the Blind Men and the Elephant” I now respond as follow: 1. Firstly, the existence of blind men does not imply that all men are blind. 2. Secondly, the blind men of your post are exactly those whom I referred to in #1 (all wrong) or in #3 (all right but looking at the truth from different angles). 3. Thirdly, a person who sees the elephant’s tail and concludes that an elephant is a “tail-like animal” is in error. Why? Because he arrived at that conclusion based on a fraction of the available evidence. The same applies to those who claim religion is bad after looking only at a few, deliberately misrepresented samples, but religion is bigger than those samples. 0Delta-X: “Indeed, each blind man has a limited perspective on the objective truth, but that doesn’t mean objective truth isn’t there.” MY RESPONSE: Exactly. A limited perspective on the objective truth does neither negate the existence of objective truth nor exclude the possibility of there being someone with an “unlimited” perspective on the objective truth. Jesus said, "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into ALL TRUTH" -- John 16:13. In other words, Jesus promised that the HS would guide His followers to an UNLIMITED perspective of the truth ... and you, too, believe this if you are really a Christian. 0Delta-X: “In fact, truth isn’t relative at all… It’s there to discover in all its totality.” MY RESPONSE: You keep proving me right. There is objective truth; relativism is wrong ... thank you! 0Delta-X: “In theology, just because we have limited access to Truth, that doesn’t mean any and all versions of Truth are equally valid.” MY RESPONSE: Put differently … some people have limited access to the truth, what leads them into believing in a “distorted version” of the truth, but a "distorted version" of the truth doesn’t negate the existence of “ALL TRUTH” that Jesus spoke about. 0Delta-X: “Actually, if we know the Whole Elephant is out there, shouldn’t this drive us to open our eyes wider and seek every opportunity to experience more of Him?" MY RESPONSE: That is exactly why I encourage you to continue searching for the truth. It is out there even when some people are unable to find it. Continue to next page: >>> Post Views: 15771 Displaying posts 1 - 25 of 83 total posts: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - >>> © 2012 web.com.na About | Press | Contact & Support | Terms & Conditions| Privacy | Imprint Designed for Namibia