Tuesday, 22.05.2012 - Welcome to web.com.na! Online: 7 Members, 66 Guests You are not logged in! Home | Forums   Forum Your last visit was: Tuesday, 22.05.2012, 12:17 [ Search Forum ] Forum Home : Youth Corner : Introduction Displaying posts 1 - 25 of 38 total posts: 1 - 2 - >>> Post Views: 5900 0DELTA-X AND HIS QUESTIONS ON RELIGION Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Tuesday, 01. March 2011 at 12:11 Hi 0Delta-X, The topic "0Delta-X vs Religion" is no longer applicable because you have admitted of being Christian (and therefore of being religious). This new thread is specifically for your further questions in the context of being questions by a religious person wanting to know more about religion. The floor is yours! Re: 0DELTA-X AND HIS QUESTIONS ON RELIGION 0Delta-X Number Posts: 160 Last Post: 08.03.2012, 17:36 [ View User's Posts ] Monday, 14. March 2011 at 16:02 Lenga2030 Sorry for being pausing on this thread. Though for the past week I have been leading Biblical scriptures. And comparing to our discussion on religion, this is what I get to know: 1. The word “CHOICE” is far more than us human being we think. Like a choice to “SIN”. 2. God is “FAIR” 3. “GOD’s LOVE” As I read more and more I come to learn that why God send people to HELL and HEAVEN respectively. Is nothing else but has to do with those words I gave above “God’s love” “fairness” and “choice” given to human being to do evil or good. So, this beat many people for disproving God’s love as they use to say: If God is for love then why he send people to perish in hell? God is full of love till the day he will let a sinner into hell. Here is what I discovered: A) With the help of word CHOICE we discussed earlier I guess is like this: Since the Bible said everyone will be rewarded upon his/her work accordingly. And what you sown is what you will harvest. So, God send people to hell, coz he wants to be fair enough to them and respect their choices. Like a buyer and Seller: The seller may have many commodities he/she selling, but if a buyer ask him a bread then he must give bread but not salt. If the seller give salt to the buyer who is requesting to buy bread then he/she (seller) got no respect for the buyer’s choice, he/she (seller) neither being fair in exchange with money given to him just enough for bread. So God does avoid example of unfair seller. B) What if a farmer sowed mahangu seeds in his/her field; Of course it will be probably magic, curses, oshipwe etc if the plant germinated are aloes. C) What if a dog gives a birth to chicken instead of puppy?……….sure people will wonder and think that something is wrong with nature choice or ain’t being fair. Even us human being didn’t expect those events. D) Imagine, there is a basket which filled with apple and pepper/chili. Then someone says, everyone take what you prefer. What if someone choose to eat bitter pepper/chili over an apple. Will you care seeing him/her rolling on the ground? Note: he/she left apples in the basket. So let them bear the bitter of chili E) So what if God gave you what you didn’t sow/choose then? Will he be a fair to your choice? Will he be the same God of love who doesn’t love to give what everyone chose? So this describe that indeed God is love and fair. Also it justifies a SIN as a CHOICE. God indeed doesn't PUNISH but REWARD. F) QUESTIONS: Though, I still have some questions I want to ask, what I just don’t understand about death and hell: Currently all people who are dead, as we speak now, are they already judged for hell and heaven? Coz I thought all people will be judged once in one same day. But why Jesus told us about a rich man in hell and Lazarus in heaven with Abraham? Are these people already judged? Coz I thought, can’t remember well somewhere in revelation it said no body has entered hell yet but just being prepared with sulfur to be hot seven times when every sinner will be thrown at once. Help me to be out of these confusions. Z-Series Re: 0DELTA-X AND HIS QUESTIONS ON RELIGION Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Monday, 14. March 2011 at 18:11 Hi 0Delta-X, How are you doing? I thank you for finally finding some time to continue with our discussion. 0DELTA-X: "Lenga2030 Sorry for being pausing on this thread. Though for the past week I have been leading Biblical scriptures. And comparing to our discussion on religion, this is what I get to know:" MY RESPONSE: "Leading" or perhaps "reading Biblical scriptures"? I will be shocked if you were "leading Biblical scriptures". 0DELTA-X: "1. The word “CHOICE” is far more than us human being we think. Like a choice to “SIN”. 2. God is “FAIR” 3. “GOD’s LOVE” As I read more and more I come to learn that why God send people to HELL and HEAVEN respectively. Is nothing else but has to do with those words I gave above “God’s love” “fairness” and “choice” given to human being to do evil or good." MY RESPONSE: It seems you were really reading ... the fruits are clearly visible to me. Please continue reading ... and praying, right? 0DELTA-X: "So, this beat many people for disproving God’s love as they use to say: If God is for love then why he send people to perish in hell? God is full of love till the day he will let a sinner into hell. Here is what I discovered: A) With the help of word CHOICE we discussed earlier I guess is like this: Since the Bible said everyone will be rewarded upon his/her work accordingly. And what you sown is what you will harvest. So, God send people to hell, coz he wants to be fair enough to them and respect their choices." MY RESPONSE: I think that is exactly what I have been saying. 0DELTA-X: "Like a buyer and Seller: The seller may have many commodities he/she selling, but if a buyer ask him a bread then he must give bread but not salt. If the seller give salt to the buyer who is requesting to buy bread then he/she (seller) got no respect for the buyer’s choice, he/she (seller) neither being fair in exchange with money given to him just enough for bread.So God does avoid example of unfair seller." B) What if a farmer sowed mahangu seeds in his/her field; Of course it will be probably magic, curses, oshipwe etc if the plant germinated are aloes. C) What if a dog gives a birth to chicken instead of puppy?……….sure people will wonder and think that something is wrong with nature choice or ain’t being fair. Even us human being didn’t expect those events." D) Imagine, there is a basket which filled with apple and pepper/chili. Then someone says, everyone take what you prefer. What if someone choose to eat bitter pepper/chili over an apple. Will you care seeing him/her rolling on the ground? Note: he/she left apples in the basket. So let them bear the bitter of chili. E) So what if God gave you what you didn’t sow/choose then? Will he be a fair to your choice? Will he be the same God of love who doesn’t love to give what everyone chose? So this describe that indeed God is love and fair. Also it justifies a SIN as a CHOICE. God indeed doesn't PUNISH but REWARD." MY RESPONSE: 0Delta-X, 0Delta-X!!!!! ... you are great. You were really looking for answers and through sheer determination you have found the truth. Just polish it a little, but be sure, you now have the real thing. 0DELTA-X: "F) QUESTIONS: Though, I still have some questions I want to ask, what I just don’t understand about death and hell: Currently all people who are dead, as we speak now, are they already judged for hell and heaven? MY RESPONSE: Yes, they are already judged, but remember: you may come across many Christians who disagree with this, exactly because they fail to look deeper when reading the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. 0DELTA-X: "Coz I thought all people will be judged once in one same day. But why Jesus told us about a rich man in hell and Lazarus in heaven with Abraham? Are these people already judged? MY RESPONSE: Yes, they are judged, otherwise they would be mixing in one single place, but as you can see, Lazarus and the rich man went to different places. Why if not already judged? Some people connfuse "particular judgment" for every one at the hour of death, and "general judgment" at the end of the age when bodily resurrection takes place. With regards to "Abraham's bossom", I would not describe it as "heaven" but a place for the righteous dead before Christ opened the gates of heaven. 0DELTA-X: "Coz I thought, can’t remember well somewhere in revelation it said no body has entered hell yet but just being prepared with sulfur to be hot seven times when every sinner will be thrown at once. Help me to be out of these confusions." MY RESPONSE: Be careful when reading Revelation, that is apocalyptic literature. I would suggest you only read Revelation and Daniel after acquiring some grounding in Biblical context, like when the book was written and why and the culture of the time. Why you need that? Because you need to know what is literally true, what is symbolic, how the original readers understood it, etc. Re: 0DELTA-X AND HIS QUESTIONS ON RELIGION 0Delta-X Number Posts: 160 Last Post: 08.03.2012, 17:36 [ View User's Posts ] Wednesday, 16. March 2011 at 14:42 Thank you Lenga2030 for your explanation again. 1. About my question of death and hell, bit clear though let me further ask this: Jesus died then GOD resurrected HIM after 3 days. My question now is: Where Jesus has been all those 3 days? Or this was just an exceptional to Jesus. Have been searching some scriptures in the Bible (didn't find it) where someone told me that: (apparently written in The Bible) After Jesus dead he entered one place for dead people (oshaasi) Satan was also guarding the place to prevent Jesus not to enter surely he (Satan) failed. Jesus lights illuminated the place. Is that place Jesus met Adam too. This is why i have been believing that all dead people from Adam up to today are in that place waiting the day of judgements. Means Adam will be judged in same day with someone who will born tomorrow, next year or 2999 year. Am still continuing looking for that scriptures. Then if that is true, then i have another questions who told people who came to write The Bible what happen in such place where Jesus went after death? 2. Also in Deuteronomy, Moses write his own death. Deuteronomy 34:5 - "So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. Moses was buried by the Lord and the place of his burial was kept secret from all men". As you can see, the Bible is very clear that Moses was buried. Deuteronomy 34:6 - "And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day". My Question is: Who wrote this in Deuteronomy? How does he/she came to know all this if Moses death God kept it as a secret? God himself buried him as well. Z-Series Re: 0DELTA-X AND HIS QUESTIONS ON RELIGION Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Thursday, 17. March 2011 at 16:57 Hi 0Delta-X, Happy to hear from you, again. 0DELTA-X: "Thank you Lenga2030 for your explanation again. 1. About my question of death and hell, bit clear though let me further ask this: Jesus died then GOD resurrected HIM after 3 days." MY RESPONSE: Being God, Jesus RESURRECTED himself -- technically speaking. 0DELTA-X: "My question now is: Where Jesus has been all those 3 days? Or this was just an exceptional to Jesus." MY RESPONSE: He, among others, preached to the spirits in prison: "For Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the sake of the unrighteous, that he might lead you to God. Put to death in the flesh, he was brought to life in the spirit. In it HE ALSO WENT TO PREACH TO THE SPIRITS IN PRISON, who had once been disobedient while God patiently waited in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water" (1 Peter 3:18-20). 0DELTA-X: "Have been searching some scriptures in the Bible (didn't find it) where someone told me that: (apparently written in The Bible) After Jesus dead he entered one place for dead people (oshaasi). MY RESPONSE: Answered above. 0DELTA-X: "Satan was also guarding the place to prevent Jesus not to enter surely he (Satan) failed. MY RESPONSE: That one is a legend. The Bible does not mention such an incident. 0DELTA-X: "Jesus lights illuminated the place. Is that place Jesus met Adam too. This is why i have been believing that all dead people from Adam up to today are in that place waiting the day of judgements. Means Adam will be judged in same day with someone who will born tomorrow, next year or 2999 year. Am still continuing looking for that scriptures." MY RESPONSE: That one is general judgment you are referring to, but particular judgment takes place at death of each individual. Just re-read the Lazarus/rich man parable. 0DELTA-X: "Then if that is true, then i have another questions who told people who came to write The Bible what happen in such place where Jesus went after death?" MY RESPONSE: Jesus went there and returned to his disciples after his resurrection. And He told them many things that are not recorded in the Bible (John 20:30-31). 0DELTA-X: "2. Also in Deuteronomy, Moses write his own death. Deuteronomy 34:5 - "So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. Moses was buried by the Lord and the place of his burial was kept secret from all men". MY RESPONSE: Deuteronomy was not written by Moses. The fact that it forms part of "the Law of Moses" does not mean Moses wrote everything down. And that is very important to note. 0DELTA-X: "As you can see, the Bible is very clear that Moses was buried. Deuteronomy 34:6 - "And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day". MY RESPONSE: Yes, the Bible is clear that Moses was buried, but it is also clear that the devil and archangel Michael had a dispute over his body (Jude 1:9). We can safely say the archangel won because Moses, now in his glorified body, appeared to Jesus at a mountain, together with Elijah who never died. 0DELTA-X: "My Question is: Who wrote this in Deuteronomy? How does he/she came to know all this if Moses death God kept it as a secret? God himself buried him as well." MY RESPONSE: The book of Deuteronomy was written long after Moses' death. [Post edited by: Lenga2030 on 17/3/11 4:58 PM] Re: 0DELTA-X AND HIS QUESTIONS ON RELIGION 0Delta-X Number Posts: 160 Last Post: 08.03.2012, 17:36 [ View User's Posts ] Friday, 18. March 2011 at 13:04 Lenga2030 thanks, and sorry coz am asking too much. 1. Good to know that wasn't really Moses write his 5 books. But main question still remain unanswered. Since Moses death remain unknown mysterious (except God and Satan knows). God told whom to write this in Deuteronomy since God kept it secret. No body was there, when God buried Moses remains. No body was there when angel Michael was fighting against devil. Also i think God kept it secret for reason, but who uncovered such secret to end up written in the Bible. Why the Bible didn't just say Moses got lost or vanished without trace? 2. Then Bible told us too, (in heaven) angel Satan (before his pride that led to rebellion against God) used to guard God's throne. My question is: why angel Satan guarded God's throne? Against what? Is God really needed to be helped? Thank you once more Lenga2030 Z-Series Re: 0DELTA-X AND HIS QUESTIONS ON RELIGION Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Monday, 21. March 2011 at 09:01 0DELTA-X: "Lenga2030 thanks, and sorry coz am asking too much. 1. Good to know that wasn't really Moses write his 5 books. MY RESPONSE: What I meant is this. Most of the content of the 5 books originates from Moses but Moses was not responsible for the final form. He may have left scattered pieces of papers, sermons, drafts, written speeches etc. As you may know, Deuteronomy means “second law”, in fact a summary of what was presented in the first four books. 0DELTA-X: "But main question still remain unanswered. Since Moses death remain unknown mysterious (except God and Satan knows).” MY RESPONSE: No, you are wrong there. The death of Moses is known; it is even recorded in the Bible, and that is what prompted you to rightly ask: “how can Moses write about his own death”. 0DELTA-X: "God told whom to write this in Deuteronomy since God kept it secret." MY RESPONSE: God did not keep it secret … read the Bible again. What is unknown is Moses’ tomb, not his death. 0DELTA-X: "No body was there, when God buried Moses remains." MY RESPONSE: Moses was not buried by God. You know, to understand the Bible you have to read what is written in the Bible, not what those who don’t believe the Bible say about the Bible. If you read the Bible you find that it does not say God buried Moses’ remains. And it nowhere says “nobody was there” when Moses was buried. 0DELTA-X: "No body was there when angel Michael was fighting against devil." MY RESPONSE: Yes, nobody was there but God revealed it to His people. Therefore it is recorded in the Bible. There are some who believe the Bible when it says one thing, but disbelieve the Bible when it says another thing. For example, some believe the Bible when it says no one to this day knows where Moses' tomb is, but when it says the devil and Michael had a dispute over Moses' body, they develop some reluctance to believe. This always creates problems ... when people read the Bible and chose what to believe and what not to believe. 0DELTA-X: "Also i think God kept it secret for reason, but who uncovered such secret to end up written in the Bible." MY RESPONSE: What was kept secret is Moses’ tomb, not Moses’ death. And the dispute between the devil and Michael was not kept secret either because it is recorded in the Bible … a public document. 0DELTA-X: "Why the Bible didn't just say Moses got lost or vanished without trace?" MY RESPONSE: That would be telling lies. 0DELTA-X: "2. Then Bible told us too, (in heaven) angel Satan (before his pride that led to rebellion against God) used to guard God's throne." MY RESPONSE: Well, you will have to provide references (the book and the chapter where it is written) to enable me to read it in context … do me that favor. 0DELTA-X: "My question is: why angel Satan guarded God's throne? Against what?" MY RESPONSE: Like I said, we need context. Provide references and I will try to interact with the text. 0DELTA-X: "Is God really needed to be helped?" MY RESPONSE: Yes, God “needed to be helped” … but we have to understand the word “helped” from a human perspective. Like when we reveal or confess our sins to God (He already knows our sins) and like when we ask His help (He already know what we need). Like when God rested (we know God can’t get tired and needs no rest). So, those are words as understood by humans, from this side of life. Re: 0DELTA-X AND HIS QUESTIONS ON RELIGION 0Delta-X Number Posts: 160 Last Post: 08.03.2012, 17:36 [ View User's Posts ] Tuesday, 22. March 2011 at 16:53 Lenga2030 1. About Moses death, I think is something u are failing to get me in words here. Like your answer saying Moses death wasn’t secret since is written in the Bible, YES I agree with you on this. Though that didn’t answer my question yet. Let me put it this way: During Israelis’ exodus, Moses talked to God directly and nobody was there during their live conversation. Supposed Moses remained quiet then nobody has ever come to know how God created the universe etc. So Moses acted as a medium between God and People. But after Moses death, The Bible said no body know up to this day the tomb of Moses. Whose mouth saying this and how it does know place (Moab valley) of Moses burial? How did we know that Moses was buried then through what media God conducted any other person (apart from Moses (deceased) can be either Aron, Josua, Kareb or Prophet) to tell people. Like u said: God himself revealed it to his people, yes that is not problem as well….but how, through whom? 2. About Satan being God’s throne guardian, Ezek 28: 11-16 also Isaiah 14:13-14, Though those words may not say it directly maybe, or missing word of throne rather than guardian. Z-Series Re: 0DELTA-X AND HIS QUESTIONS ON RELIGION zioncommunity Number Posts: 16 Last Post: 23.03.2011, 17:47 [ View User's Posts ] Tuesday, 22. March 2011 at 23:33 Just a very humble contribution MOISES DID NOT WROTE NO BOOKS, NEITHER JESUS. The writings came many years after Moises. And some of the folllowers of JESUS in fact record in words some facts and says of the LORD.. There are questions about the Books of the Moises. Example: there are no cientifical / arqueological evidence that the jews had been any time in Egipt. That is now , in fact the opinion of too many jewish schollars. So, here the point is : READ THE BIBLE AS A MEANING. The same for the Book of Mormon. From us the INT OMMUNITY OF ZION (or the Wolves of LENGA) Obs: we are waiting for your news coments ( dear Lenga ) at our new imput in the other forum Re: 0DELTA-X AND HIS QUESTIONS ON RELIGION Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Wednesday, 23. March 2011 at 07:04 Hi 0Delta-X, Let us continue our fruitful discussion. 0DELATA-X: "Lenga2030 1. About Moses death, I think is something u are failing to get me in words here. Like your answer saying Moses death wasn’t secret since is written in the Bible, YES I agree with you on this. Though that didn’t answer my question yet. Let me put it this way: During Israelis’ exodus, Moses talked to God directly and nobody was there during their live conversation." MY RESPONSE: That is true! 0DELATA-X: "Supposed Moses remained quiet then nobody has ever come to know how God created the universe etc." MY RESPONSE: Luckily Moses did not remain quiet. And more: the story of creation did not originate with Moses, it was oral tradition long before Moses. What Moses (or his disciples) did is to write it down in an organized manner. 0DELATA-X: "So Moses acted as a medium between God and People. But after Moses death, The Bible said no body know up to this day the tomb of Moses." MY RESPONSE: Yes! 0DELATA-X: "Whose mouth saying this and how it does know place (Moab valley) of Moses burial?" MY RESPONSE: Do you know Moses had Joshua to assist him (politicians would call him the vice president)? And do you know God spoke directly to Joshua? Look at this: "After Moses, the servant of the LORD, had died, the LORD said to Moses' aide Joshua, son of Nun: My servant Moses is dead.” When God says “Moses is dead” you better believe it. 0DELATA-X: "How did we know that Moses was buried then through what media God conducted any other person (apart from Moses (deceased) can be either Aron, Josua, Kareb or Prophet) to tell people. Like u said: God himself revealed it to his people, yes that is not problem as well….but how, through whom?" MY RESPONSE: If only we kept in mind that the Bible is God-breathed, then such a question would not have been necessary because the answer is right before us: God revealed it to His people through His written Word, the Bible. 0DELATA-X: "2. About Satan being God’s throne guardian, Ezek 28: 11-16 also Isaiah 14:13-14, Though those words may not say it directly maybe, or missing word of throne rather than guardian." MY RESPONSE: Ezekiel 28:1-16 speaks of two entities: 1. The prince of Tyre, a man, not a god; God will bring against him foreigners, the most barbarous of nations; a man, not a god, to be handed over to those who will slay you; shall die the death of the uncircumcised at the hands of foreigners. Definitely that is not Satan because Satan is not man either. 2. Then Ezekiel speaks of the king of Tyre. Yes, this one (plus Isaiah 14:13-14) can be said to refer to Satan but nowhere do the texts say he was God’s guard like you said. But even if the text said so, we have to understand that words written for humans reflect human prespective. Re: 0DELTA-X AND HIS QUESTIONS ON RELIGION Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Wednesday, 23. March 2011 at 07:31 Hi Zioncommunity, Thanks for your contribution here. ZIONCOMMUNITY: "Just a very humble contribution MOISES DID NOT WROTE NO BOOKS, NEITHER JESUS. The writings came many years after Moises." MY RESPONSE: No, Moses wrote books. He wrote Job for example, but he did not write some of the books atributed to him. ZIONCOMMUNITY: "And some of the folllowers of JESUS in fact record in words some facts and says of the LORD." MY RESPONSE: What do you mean here? Are you implying Jesus's followers atributed things to Jesus that He never said or did? Where is your evidence of such fraud? And if that is the case, why do you still believe the in Bible, a falsefied book? ZIONCOMMUNITY: "There are questions about the Books of the Moises. Example: there are no cientifical / arqueological evidence that the jews had been any time in Egipt. That is now , in fact the opinion of too many jewish schollars." MY RESPONSE: Looking for scientic truth in a book about religious truth is a fatal mistake. By the way, there is no scientifc (only fabricated evidence) that a lost tribe of Israel migrated to the Americas like the Book of Mormon alleges. Yet you do not question this. Oh yeah, sellective morality. ZIONCOMMUNITY: "So, here the point is : READ THE BIBLE AS A MEANING. The same for the Book of Mormon." MY RESPONSE: That is how Satan deceices. By placing truth and lie at the same level. Now you place the Bible at the same level with the Book of Mormon, a work of fiction. ZIONCOMMUNITY: "From us the INT OMMUNITY OF ZION (or the Wolves of LENGA)" MY RESPONSE: I see I have touched a very sensitive nerve -- hahahahaha! But tell me: do you believe the Bible when it says in later days wolves would come disguised as sheep? Have they come or not yet? Are you sure that the Mormon practice of giving "milk before meat" is not a way of a wolf pretending to be a sheep? Oh ... that is why what I said irritates you so much! ZIONCOMMUNITY: "Obs: we are waiting for your news coments ( dear Lenga ) at our new imput in the other forum." MY RESPONSE: I am around and will contribute whenever time permits. [Post edited by: Lenga2030 on 23/3/11 7:34 AM] Re: 0DELTA-X AND HIS QUESTIONS ON RELIGION 0Delta-X Number Posts: 160 Last Post: 08.03.2012, 17:36 [ View User's Posts ] Wednesday, 23. March 2011 at 11:06 1. Lenga2030 quoted: "MY RESPONSE: Do you know Moses had Joshua to assist him (politicians would call him the vice president)? And do you know God spoke directly to Joshua? Look at this: "After Moses, the servant of the LORD, had died, the LORD said to Moses' aide Joshua, son of Nun: My servant Moses is dead.” When God says “Moses is dead” you better believe it." GOOD! That PERFECTLY SATISFY ME NOW 2. About Satan as a guardian, ok, i think is like this Lenga, I am currently also sipping translations, information about Godly aspects via many sources to help. Different people got different translation u know. Also if i stick to The Bible only, sometimes am not yet satisfied. So i have to look many sources to help solve the abstract in scriptures am reading. Those sources include people with different knowledge, Christians documentaries (Videos) websites etc. So this group include Lenga, Zion Community, Boerseun, MMB, Opportunist.... just as an example. Sure info will be different. Yet is up to me to judge. 3. One thing also i noticed, it could be Bible versions got slight changes: Eg King James Bible Ezekiel 28:14 says " “You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones." HERE NO WORD GUARDIAN yet another source says: Ezekiel 28:14 "You were an anointed guardian cherub. I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked.” HERE IS WORD GUARDIAN......And u see words in these 2 verses are bit different but same context 4. To help further, i also read in the Bible somewhere where it says: Christ was crucified on tree. This is where i guess other branches of Christians (Like Jehovah witness) started to argue that it was not a "CROSS" but tree. But what is interesting here is that: A "TREE" can be a CROSS but is not necessary a CROSS to be a TREE. So, this kind of scenarios the problem lies in the language itself or evolution of versions. Then probably after another 1000 years with many version printed to suit the current language then somewhere havoc will come in. Eg first Oshindonga Bible i hardly understand it than current version. So I think Hebrew Bible better. Also according to my experience of some foreign languages i know, i noticed it that is hardly to find exact suit word to go in hand with another word of different language but simply it just help to give a meaning! So i don't think all Hebrew words were really translated 100% efficiently but did to all their best. Since there are some words that are not/lack in other languages. Thank u once more Lenga, Am learning a lot from u now. Z-Series Zero Family Re: 0DELTA-X AND HIS QUESTIONS ON RELIGION 0Delta-X Number Posts: 160 Last Post: 08.03.2012, 17:36 [ View User's Posts ] Wednesday, 23. March 2011 at 11:38 Lenga2030 Ok, we talked much about Bible scriptures and God himself, sin Satan and many more we discussed so far. Another favor please! Let us discuss RELIGION LOCALLY here in Namibia. 1. What is a right church in Namibia and why? Nowadays Churches in Namibia are like busy ants. Garages and houses are turned into churches They are like politicians who accusing each others who is right and wrong. Baptizing this way and that is not the way. Worshiping God like that is not enough. I see students quitting universities for churches. YES, Jesus said u don't need to worry for next day, see how birds are surviving, a man can not only stay alive on bread only, if am not praying shouting/dancing then is not yet enough, not giving much of my wealth aint thankful to God, aint doing miracles u are not true......those are some of their reasons. To add, some families become divided for different religion affiliation, rapes among churches master man, corruption among church institution, people are changing churches as mad-man fro and back. 0Delta-X then wander, where is really God in this society? That is one of reason in my first post said: i hate religious people sometimes. Religious people/society sometimes look as if blind-men, disorganize and they come at point where they look crazy and confuse. It make me fear to join this society. Though am pretty sure God is not crazy and confuse as them! What is your say Lenga2030 on this? Sure i want to work for God, but i must excluded from that CRAZINESS! Sorry ngo! Z-Series Re: 0DELTA-X AND HIS QUESTIONS ON RELIGION 0Delta-X Number Posts: 160 Last Post: 08.03.2012, 17:36 [ View User's Posts ] Wednesday, 23. March 2011 at 12:00 zioncommunity 1. I have been following your conversation with Lenga2030 from previous thread. Indeed is where this thread is extracted. To be honest seems like you don't know much about your religion, i see you lack reasons to defend it, at some point something you were pro then later you came to be against it. You are changing too much.....and make even me who know less about religion to fear you guys. 2. Well you mention scientific and archeological aspects not supporting Moses and Israelis exodus. Actually am a technician in marine science. Though with my basic science knowledge i got a pretty clue how archeology works. Mainly they rely on carbon dating or 14C dating which still a big problem and remain an assumption. There is a possibility 14C to say something dead 2 years ago has dead yersteday or 23000 years ago. If you are good in Science then we can kick it! Yet if your religion is based on science that means your are an evolutionist and they are not supporting religion. BUT religious people are supporting science with exclusion in some aspects. Z-Series Re: 0DELTA-X AND HIS QUESTIONS ON RELIGION zioncommunity Number Posts: 16 Last Post: 23.03.2011, 17:47 [ View User's Posts ] Wednesday, 23. March 2011 at 17:24 We belive that we know a bit about the Mormonism. About the jewish people never had been in Egypt, may we say that is not from us or any church/mov. / org,etc connected with the Book of Mormon ( as there are too many churches, groups,etc that belive in the Book of Mormon), is a good poosibility that cames from jewish scholares. Well , we are NOT PRIESTS , MONKS, REVERENDS , etc with wages payed by church goers. We are simple christians that try to live the faith in Jesus Christ the best that we know , and work daily for to put a slice of bread in the table.. We don't know by memory every word , line, etc of the BIBLE or the BOOK OF MORMON. We just try to read it every day and from there take lessons for our daily lifes. Good enough ? Re: 0DELTA-X AND HIS QUESTIONS ON RELIGION Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Wednesday, 23. March 2011 at 19:46 Hi 0Delta-X, I am happy to hear this: “GOOD! That PERFECTLY SATISFY ME NOW.” 0DELTA: “2. About Satan as a guardian, ok, i think is like this Lenga, I am currently also sipping translations, information about Godly aspects via many sources to help. Different people got different translation u know. Also if i stick to The Bible only, sometimes am not yet satisfied.” MY RESPONSE: I find nothing wrong with that. 0DELTA: “So i have to look many sources to help solve the abstract in scriptures am reading. Those sources include people with different knowledge, Christians documentaries (Videos) websites etc. So this group include Lenga, Zion Community, Boerseun, MMB, Opportunist.... just as an example. Sure info will be different. Yet is up to me to judge.” MY RESPONSE: In a limited sense, yes, it is up to you to judge, but you have to be careful not to see yourself as the final judge of the truth. For that, Jesus established His Church, saying: “Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me" (Luke 10:16). So, when one rejects what the church teaches (preferring his own judgment) he is actually rejecting Christ. 0DELTA: “3. One thing also i noticed, it could be Bible versions got slight changes: Eg King James Bible Ezekiel 28:14 says "You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones." HERE NO WORD GUARDIAN. Yet another source says: Ezekiel 28:14 "You were an anointed guardian cherub. I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked.” HERE IS WORD GUARDIAN ... And u see words in these 2 verses are bit different but same context." MY RESPONSE: Yes, translations differ, but even the translation that says “you were an anointed guardian cherub” does nowhere say he was guarding God. 0DELTA: “4. To help further, i also read in the Bible somewhere where it says: Christ was crucified on tree. This is where i guess other branches of Christians (Like Jehovah witness) started to argue that it was not a "CROSS" but tree. But what is interesting here is that: A "TREE" can be a CROSS but is not necessary a CROSS to be a TREE. So, this kind of scenarios the problem lies in the language itself or evolution of versions.” MY RESPONSE: I hope you still remember what I said some time ago that to understand the Bible we need to know the history and culture of the people from whom we got the Bible, and even their way of speaking. Here “tree” is just a manner of speaking, but Jesus was crucified on a cross. 0DELTA: “Then probably after another 1000 years with many version printed to suit the current language then somewhere havoc will come in. Eg first Oshindonga Bible i hardly understand it than current version. So I think Hebrew Bible better." MY RESPONSE: It is probably for that reason that during the first centuries of Christianity the Church prohibited unauthorized Bible translations. That was to guard against textual corruption, but for that, the Church is now being accused by revisionists of being anti-Bible. 0DELTA: “Also according to my experience of some foreign languages i know, i noticed it that is hardly to find exact suit word to go in hand with another word of different language but simply it just help to give a meaning!" MY RESPONSE: That is true. 0DELTA: “So i don't think all Hebrew words were really translated 100% efficiently but did to all their best. Since there are some words that are not/lack in other languages." MY RESPONSE: That is why we need the Church. The Bible alone is not clear and may even lead to confusion – like we see today. 0DELTA: “Thank u once more Lenga, Am learning a lot from u now.” MY RESPONSE: You are welcome my dear brother … I am actually also learning from you. The more questions you ask, the more I have to research the subject and find a suitable answer. So, I am also benefiting. Re: 0DELTA-X AND HIS QUESTIONS ON RELIGION Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Wednesday, 23. March 2011 at 20:13 0DELTA-X: "Lenga2030 Ok, we talked much about Bible scriptures and God himself, sin Satan and many more we discussed so far. Another favor please! Let us discuss RELIGION LOCALLY here in Namibia." MY RESPONSE: Okay! 0DELTA-X: "1. What is a right church in Namibia and why?" MY RESPONSE: Let us rather ask: Did Jesus found more than one Church? If not, which one among the many churches we have, was founded by Christ? Finding answers to those two questions would provide an answer to your question. But remember: the Gospel truth is found in more than one Church, but the whole Gospel truth can only be found in the Church founded by Christ. Let the search start. 0DELTA-X: "Nowadays Churches in Namibia are like busy ants. Garages and houses are turned into churches They are like politicians who accusing each others who is right and wrong." MY RESPONSE: That is true. 0DELTA-X: "Baptizing this way and that is not the way. Worshiping God like that is not enough. I see students quitting universities for churches." MY RESPONSE: That, too, is true. And the poor students do not even think for a moment how much money the pastor of the church is making per month, while using them as slaves, distributing leaflets at street corners etc. 0DELTA-X: "YES, Jesus said u don't need to worry for next day, see how birds are surviving, a man can not only stay alive on bread only, if am not praying shouting/dancing then is not yet enough, not giving much of my wealth aint thankful to God, aint doing miracles u are not true ...... those are some of their reasons. To add, some families become divided for different religion affiliation, rapes among churches master man, corruption among church institution, people are changing churches as mad-man fro and back." MY RESPONSE: God is not God of confusion. When we see such confusion we know its source is the devil. "I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose" (1 Corinthians 1:10). People who call themselves Christians ignore this and the result is what we see today. 0DELTA-X: "0Delta-X then wander, where is really God in this society? That is one of reason in my first post said: i hate religious people sometimes. Religious people/society sometimes look as if blind-men, disorganize and they come at point where they look crazy and confuse." MY RESPONSE: That is exactly what the devil, the source of this confusion, wants. He causes divisions, contradictory doctrines, false miracles that lead people to eventually loose focus or even question the existence of God. 0DELTA-X: "It make me fear to join this society. Though am pretty sure God is not crazy and confuse as them!" What is your say Lenga2030 on this? Sure i want to work for God, but i must excluded from that CRAZINESS! Sorry ngo!" MY RESPONSE: What you stated above shows that Jesus was right when He said Christians should be united for the world to believe in Jesus. Now Christians are divided, so the world is confused. That is exactly what Jesus warned against. Re: 0DELTA-X AND HIS QUESTIONS ON RELIGION 0Delta-X Number Posts: 160 Last Post: 08.03.2012, 17:36 [ View User's Posts ] Thursday, 31. March 2011 at 10:57 Lenga2030 Thank you once more for your response. I love what you said so far. 1. Also in Namibia there is this new thing or ....just dont know how to call it. being "BORN AGAIN". From the Bible, there is a discussion between Jesus and Pharisees man called Nickodemus. John 3:1-5 Jesus told him only who being born again will enter God kingdom. Born in water and Holly spirit. 2. But today being born again in Namibia seems like something more special than that like a religion or particular church thing. This are questions do irritate me: Are you born again? Then if am not part of that church then sure it force me to say NO. If i say YES and not part of their group am a LIAR. Does this mean joining particular group that claiming being born again enough to save a soul? Isn't being born again must be my personal thing with God. Shouting that am a born again will it really merely save me from hell? Does it really make a difference from wolves in sheep's pelts? Jesus was warning Pharisees for getting their own pride from merely people whose shout to know God better than anyone else. Example: Luke 18:9-14 Z-Series Re: 0DELTA-X AND HIS QUESTIONS ON RELIGION Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Sunday, 03. April 2011 at 16:21 0DELTA-X: "Lenga2030 Thank you once more for your response. I love what you said so far. 1. Also in Namibia there is this new thing or ....just dont know how to call it. being "BORN AGAIN". From the Bible, there is a discussion between Jesus and Pharisees man called Nickodemus. John 3:1-5 Jesus told him only who being born again will enter God kingdom. Born in water and Holly spirit." MY RESPONSE: Yes, in Namibia there is that "new thing" of being "Born again" ... but wait. Being born again is not a new thing. It is as old as Christianity itself. What is new is the misunderstanding of what "born again" means. Some confuse conversion and/or repetence with being born again. Others think that being born again means abandoning your old church and joining a new one. But that is not Biblical. 0DELTA-X: "2. But today being born again in Namibia seems like something more special than that like a religion or particular church thing. This are questions do irritate me: Are you born again? Then if am not part of that church then sure it force me to say NO. If i say YES and not part of their group am a LIAR." MY RESPONSE: "Born again" means water baptism -- nothing less, nothing more. Just compare John 3:1-5 and Jesus' baptism in Matthew 3:16 -- you see water and the spirit. That is what Jesus was telling Nicodemus. 0DELTA-X: "Does this mean joining particular group that claiming being born again enough to save a soul? Isn't being born again must be my personal thing with God. Shouting that am a born again will it really merely save me from hell?" MY RESPONSE: No, you don't have to join the sect making such a claim, and, no, shouting "I am born again" won't save you from hell. 0DELTA-X: "Does it really make a difference from wolves in sheep's pelts? Jesus was warning Pharisees for getting their own pride from merely people whose shout to know God better than anyone else. Example: Luke 18:9-14" MY RESPONSE: Christian faith requires one to be humble; boastfulness is normally from the devil. So, be careful when you meet preachers who are boastful. They may not be serving the Lord but their own bellies. Re: 0DELTA-X AND HIS QUESTIONS ON RELIGION G4u Number Posts: 246 Last Post: 11.04.2012, 11:18 [ View User's Posts ] Monday, 04. April 2011 at 10:57 Lenga2030 wrote, " MY RESPONSE: Christian faith requires one to be humble; boastfulness is normally from the devil. So, be careful when you meet preachers who are boastful. They may not be serving the Lord but their own bellies." You are very right, no pastor form those churches are poor. They poses every type of wealth because they use church as their business. I agree with you, many if not all of them are serving their bellies. Re: 0DELTA-X AND HIS QUESTIONS ON RELIGION Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Monday, 04. April 2011 at 11:33 Hi G4u, The Bible says sectarians do not serve the Lord Christ. Instead they serve "their own appetites", deceiving the hearts of the innocent with their "flattering speeches" (cf. Romans 16:17-18). It also says "their God is their stomach" and their minds are "occupied with earthly things" (cf. Philippians 3:19). Re: 0DELTA-X AND HIS QUESTIONS ON RELIGION 0Delta-X Number Posts: 160 Last Post: 08.03.2012, 17:36 [ View User's Posts ] Monday, 04. April 2011 at 17:40 Thank you more once Lenga2030 and let me pause for a while. God bless! Z-Series Re: 0DELTA-X AND HIS QUESTIONS ON RELIGION 0Delta-X Number Posts: 160 Last Post: 08.03.2012, 17:36 [ View User's Posts ] Friday, 15. April 2011 at 11:10 Tired Of ‘Fake’ Pastors I’M now sick and tired hearing of ‘fake’ Pastors and their churches cropping up everywhere in our country abusing our women. Just last week a local newspaper reported about a woman who had a sexual relationship with a pastor while he was married and he went as far as ‘sweet talking’ her into lending him thousands of Nam dollars. This is not the first time I’ve read about such incidents and it’s disturbing. Since most so called pastors are men they con our women into sleeping with them apparently ‘to go to heaven’, and most of these pastors are from foreign countries. Immigration officials should visit them to see whether their visas are still valid since most of them apparently come for a holiday and never return to their countries of origin, making them illegal immigrants Since there are no standards for establishing a church anyone can start one, and once you start a church the benefits are tangible. It is not surprising therefore that some pastors are not real pastors, but petty con men abusing the special privileges afforded to clergymen. Churches should be set up to win souls for God but not as pure businesses! I don’t know of any other profession which is quite as easy to fake. The time has come that the Anti-Corruption commission not only investigate Public Office Holders but their power should be extended to the churches as well. Pastors should start being accountable! They should also start explaining where they get money to buy luxuries like expensive cars and trips overseas. Some churches are houses of lies, fraud, corruption, materialism and sexual exploitation. Just look around our country and you will find that almost all available spaces from car garages, ‘kambashus’ , and stores that have been converted into money-making ‘churches’. There are a lot of wrongs in the Christian community in our country, and until they are corrected the church will not have a major impact in the leadership of the country. In many churches we find lack of accountability, wrong teachings, fake and false prophecies, self-glorification, which I hate, worship of money and materialism, fake miracles, the list is endless. Religious leaders should lead by example and desist from slacking in their obligations to God and their congregations. Blame should also be given to our old churches like the Lutheran, Catholic, and the NG Church for their lack-lustre church services. They all stick to the same old boring tradition of singing a few songs - then the main sermon - then offerings - then you go home. The devil is changing his tactics every day so churches should also change theirs. Church leaders should also think about standing up, clapping and playing the piano in church because that’s what we are there for to glorify the Lord. That is exactly what attracts most people to join other churches so as not sit like zombies the whole lecture through! Tangeni ‘Barnes’ Ekandjo Walvis Bay SOURCE: http://www.namibian.com.na/letters/full-story/archive/2011/april/article/tired-of-fake-pastors/ Re: 0DELTA-X AND HIS QUESTIONS ON RELIGION Lenga2030 Number Posts: 1696 Last Post: 25.04.2012, 19:11 [ View User's Posts ] Friday, 15. April 2011 at 12:13 Hi 0Delta-X, Here is where I agree with Tangeni: "Most so called pastors (...) con our women into sleeping with them apparently ‘to go to heaven’, and most of these pastors are from foreign countries. Immigration officials should visit them to see whether their visas are still valid (...) there are no standards for establishing a church (...) once you start a church the benefits are tangible (...) some pastors are not real pastors, but petty con men (...) Churches should be set up to win souls for God but not as pure businesses! I don’t know of any other profession which is quite as easy to fake (...) Pastors should start being accountable! (...) Some churches are houses of lies, fraud, corruption, materialism and sexual exploitation (...) There are a lot of wrongs in the Christian community in our country (...) In many churches we find lack of accountability, wrong teachings, fake and false prophecies, self-glorification, which I hate, worship of money and materialism, fake miracles, the list is endless (...) The devil is changing his tactics every day so churches should also change theirs (...)" NB: I will be back later to tell you where I disagree with Tangeni. Re: 0DELTA-X AND HIS QUESTIONS ON RELIGION 0Delta-X Number Posts: 160 Last Post: 08.03.2012, 17:36 [ View User's Posts ] Monday, 18. April 2011 at 14:58 WHY MEN MUST ENJOY TO BE ISLAMIC "Quran 2:223 & 66:1 — Have sex with your women whenever, however, and as often as you like Quran 33:50-51 — Allah says it is lawful for Muhammad to marry any women he wants. —- he should marry 6yr old girl Qur’an 4:34 — Allah told to Muhammed, he can beat his wives — , he can have sex slaves Qur’an, Chapter 66: — he will get better wives if he divorce Bukhari (93:639) – The Prophet of Islam would recite the ‘Holy Qur’an’ with his head in Aisha’s lap, when she was menstruating. Bukhari (6:300) – Muhammad’s wives had to be available for the prophet’s fondling even when they were having their menstrual period. Bukhari (4:232) – Muhammad’s wives would wash semen stains out of his clothes, which were still wet from the spot-cleaning even when he went to the mosque for prayers. Between copulation and prayer, it’s a wonder he found the time to slay pagans. Bukhari (6:298) – Muhammad would take a bath with the little girl and fondle her. Muslim (8:3311) – The girl took her dolls with her to Muhammad’s house (something to play with when the “prophet” was not having sex with her). Hindus are also followin this" NOT INTENDED TO OFFEND ISLAMIC PEOPLE PLEASE. IS QUOTED FROM QURAN! Do u want to see a battle between Christianity and Islamic Religion? Click here http://www.bibleprobe.com/muhammad.htm Z-Series Continue to next page: >>> Post Views: 5900 Displaying posts 1 - 25 of 38 total posts: 1 - 2 - >>> © 2012 web.com.na About | Press | Contact & Support | Terms & Conditions| Privacy | Imprint Designed for Namibia